5cl-adb-a (MDMB-4en-PINACA) Synthesis Info & Questions

[rcprecursorUSA]

Hi all u beautiful souls of bbgate

I have some information along with questions pertaining to the synthesis of MDMB-4en-PINACA // Methyl 3,3-dimethyl-2-(1-(pent-4-en-1-yl)-1H-indazole-3-carboxamido)butanoate // C20H27N3O3 // Cas no. 2504100-70-1 (also colloquially & incorrectly known as 5cl-adb-a or simply “5CL”).

I will leave the write-up for the synthesis I’m following at the end of this post. I also have adjusted scales for 50g, 100g, and 500g you can PM me if interested.

As an aside: we have successfully synthesized ADB-BUTINACA a large number of times following an almost identical procedure, just replacing the 5-bromo-1-pentene with 1-bromobutane and a different main ingredient I’m not quite sure the identity of.
There were absolutely no issues with crystallization of the ADBB just dumping the reaction contents into ice water. We are concerned from talk we hear of others difficulties that this may be more of an issue with the synthesis of MDMB-4en-PINACA.

General info may or may not be correct about:

• The 1-alkyl chain is added to MDMB-INACA via nucleophilic substitution
• MDMB-INACA (acts as the substrate, the nucleophile that will replace the bromine atom) reacts with 5-bromo-1-pentene (acts as the electrophile) in the presence of potassium carbonate (acts as the base in this reaction, providing hydroxide ions (OH⁻) necessary for the substitution)
• This reaction is carried out in the polar aprotic solvent, N,N-Dimethylformamide (DMF)
• 5-bromo-1-pentene: this compound serves as the electrophile — the carbon atom bonded to the bromine is electron-deficient and seeks electron-rich reagents to react with
• Nucleophilic attack by OH⁻ on the carbocation intermediate leads to the substitution of the bromine in MDMB-INACA
• The final product is formed by replacing the bromine with the pent-4-en-1-yl group from 5-bromo-1-pentene

Mechanism info:

• the overall mechanism is a nucleophilic substitution process (SN1), I have outlined the steps I think it would follow below:
  1. Formation of the carbocation: 5-bromo-1-pentene undergoes heterolytic cleavage of the C-Br bonding, forming the carbocation intermediate
  2. Nucleophilic attack: MDMB-INACA (the nucleophile) attacks the electrophilic carbon of the carbocation — the bromine is replaced by the pent-4-en-1-yl group from 5-bromo-1-pentene

My questions:
Before my questions about varying reaction conditions and reagent amounts, I would much appreciate any corrections or pointers regarding my understanding above ^ from anyone who has any clue what they are talking about (unlike me, lol).

1. I see varying reaction temperatures, ranging from 60-80°C, along with varying reaction times, ranging from 2-5 hours total stirring at these heats.
   • Does anybody know what the ideal conditions are for this reaction?
2. Potassium carbonate is highly insoluble in DMF, at least at room temperature (lit says solubility is 7.5g of K2CO3 per 1000ml of DMF at 25c), but I’ve also noticed from performing many ADB-BUTINACA syntheses, that much of the k2co3 remains undissolved throughout the reaction even at 80-90°C
   • The adbb syntheses seem to work just fine without K2CO3 being completely dissolved.
   • I just thought yield could be improved if K2CO3 was fully dissolved in the solution but perhaps it's not necessary
   • Wouldn’t the dissolution of k2co3 only not matter if it was simply acting as a scavenger, which if I’m not mistaken is not the primary function of k2co3 in this reaction?
3. I see varying ranges for the amounts of solvent (2-3L DMF), amounts of 5-bromo (465g-515g), and amounts of k2co3 (700g-856g)
   • using equimolar amounts of MDMB-INACA and 5-bromo-1-pentene should indicate the use of about 515g 5-bromo per kg MDMB-INACA (apprx. 3.5mol) — should I be using a molar excess of 5-bromo, an excess of MDMB-INACA, or is equimolar fine?
   • should I be leaning more towards 2 or 3 liters of DMF?
   • will a heavy excess of k2co3 affect the reaction? 700g is already a significant molar excess (apprx. 5.2mol), I know excess will enhance the reaction rate by providing more hydroxide ions, but what about the possibility of competing elimination reactions or altering the regioselectivity of the reaction?
4. Will water mess up the reaction? Is using anhydrous k2co3 / DMF very important?
5. I’ve seen some have issues with crystallization of the final product, only being able to obtain oily residues when using ice water for the final crystallization step straight from the reaction mixture (method 1, seen in my write-up below), as opposed to extracting twice with DCM, concentrating to dryness under vacuum, & recrystallizing from anhydrous ethanol (method 2) — has anyone here been able to obtain solid product from the first method? (procedures described in my write-up below)
6. I’m aware that many Chinese labs have stopped producing the main ingredient MDMB-INACA, though the vendor I’m working with seems to offer it although they won’t give any IUPAC name or Cas no. for it. Is it likely that they are actually selling me a completely different precursor than MDMB-INACA that still works to produce a noid with this procedure?
7. Finally, my last question pertains to a comment in the following thread: https://bbgate.com/threads/5cl-synthesis-kits-china.1247/
   • user /u/BackstagePanther says the following: "You are right that reacting it with 5-bromo-1-pentene yields 5cl, impossible to crystallize, and I have reported having reacted the same precursor with 1-bromo-5-fluoropentane and obtaining a stronger product, and I presume it is 1971007-89-2, the S- isomer (or possibly racemic mixture)”
   • my question is, would replacement of 5-bromo-1-pentene with 1-bromo-5-fluoropentane not yield 5F-MDMB-PICA? (this is what a Chinese vendor told me)

Synthesis Procedure Write-up​

Ingredients:
Main ingredient is most likely MDMB-INACA or N-methyl-1H-indazole-3-carboxamide
Cautionary note: both DMF & 5-bromo-1-pentene will dissolve a lot of plastics - so stay away from plastic

①. Main ingredient, 1kg (3.456mol)


②. DMF, 2.5 liters


③. Potassium carbonate, 720g (5.2mol)


④. 5-Bromo-1-pentene, 515g or 410ml (3.455mol)


Steps:


Add ①②③ into the reaction flask, turn on stirring, and bring heat to 60-70°C


Slowly add ④ over the course of 1 hour, react for 2-3 more hours, then turn off stirring and cool to room temperature


How to get the finished product:

1. Pour the entire reaction mixture into ice water while stirring, and add it slowly (at least double the amount of ice as water, ex. for 8kg ice : 2kg water). The obtained powder is the finished product.
2. Fish out the large chunks of crystallized finished product and set aside, then pour the entire ice-water reaction mixture into filter bag (300 mesh works) to collect the rest of the product.
3. Place the product you set aside into the mesh bag along with the product already in the bag from the filtration you just did, then pour more ice cold water over all the finished product to wash away any excess contaminants.
4. You can place the ice-water reaction mixture into the fridge for a few hours or overnight, more product may crystallize out.
5. Some people tie the mesh bag tightly and run through a washer/dryer with NO HEAT to tumble dry, others place product in a vacuum desiccator to dry under vacuum, and most just crush up the product into fine pieces and leave to air dry.

If you end up with an oily final product, we can assist you with making it crystals if needed, but the oil will work just as well for c-liquids / making sprays or dipping solution for paper. The second extraction method below is more advanced, but will leave you with the highest purity spice crystals.


Second Extraction Method (solvent-solvent extraction, vacuum distillation, re-crystallization):

1. Once the reaction mixture is cooled to room temperature, add 2x the amount of water to the solution, and add 1L dichloromethane (DCM) while stirring for 10-20 minutes
2. Turn off stirring, and let the mixture stand for 15 minutes, there will be an oil layer and a water layer. The next step is easiest using a large separatory funnel.
3. Pour the water layer into another container, add 800mL DCM to this, and stir for 10-20 minutes (or shake the separatory funnel with frequent venting if using a sep funnel), then turn off stirring or stop shaking and let stand for 15 minutes, then remove the water layer leaving you with another organic oil layer
4. Combine the 2 oil layers, add half the amount of water (1:2 - water : oil) and stir for 10 minutes, then turn off stirring and let stand for 30 minutes. Finally remove the water layer.
5. Take the oil layer (contains product) and distill it under vacuum (reduced pressure so you do not overheat). By doing this you will concentrate the oil (product) in the boiling flask, and you will collect/recover the DCM from this oil as the first boiling fraction.
6. Weigh the weight of the oil obtained in the distillation, then add 1.5x that weight of anhydrous ethanol while stirring (should be close to 1.5kg ethanol). If stirring is difficult, heat the mixture slightly.
7. Put the above solution into the freezer for 2 days — stir this solution on the first day of freezing. The ethanol will not freeze as its freezing temperature is under -100°C, far below that of a conventional freezer.
8. Take your solution out of the freezer, there will be a bunch of crystallized final product. Use a 300 mesh filter cloth to filter out the solid, and dry it naturally or under vacuum to get the finished crystal spice

“The reaction solution was extracted twice with dichloromethane and water, concentrated to dryness, added 1.5kg of ethanol, put in the freezer for 1-2 days, and a crystalline powder was obtained, which is the finished product.”
Using this second method you will obtain product free from most impurities. The impurities left in the first extraction method are mostly just a small amount of 2-substituted impurities, and these will not affect the overall quality or toxicity of the product.

The only literature I was able to find anything substantial about synthesis information of this compound was the following paper: https://sci-hub.ru/https://doi.org/10.1002/dta.3037 ||
"Subjecting 1-(pent-4-en-1-yl)-1H-indazole-3-carboxylic acid (43, 230 mg,1.00 mmol, 1.00 equiv.) and methyl (S)-2-amino-3,3-dimethylbutanoate hydrochloride (200 mg, 1.10 mmol, 1.10 equiv.) to general procedure A gave, following purification by flash chromatography (hexane:EtOAc 95:5 to 85:15), 12 as a colorless low melting solid (246 mg, 57%). Rf 0.49 (hexane:EtOAc 80:20);
Where general procedure A is as follows: To a solution of the appropriate carboxylic acid (0.50 mmol, 1.00 equiv.) in DMF (2 ml) was added the appropriate amine or corresponding hydrochloride salt (0.55 mmol, 1.10 equiv.), HOBtH2O
(84.2 mg, 0.55 mmol, 1.10 equiv.), EDCHCl (144 mg, 0.75 mmol, 1.50 equiv.), and triethylamine (0.28 ml, 2.00 mmol, 4.00 equiv.). The
resulting suspension was stirred at ambient temperature for 24 h before H2O (18 ml) and EtOAc (20 ml) were added and the layers separated. The aqueous phase was extracted with EtOAc (3 × 30 ml), and the combined organics were washed with H2O (3 × 30 ml) and brine (30 ml), dried (MgSO4), filtered, and the solvent evaporated under reduced pressure. The crude products were purified by flash chromatography."

Sorry for such a lengthy post, I wanted to be comprehensive with any information I provided and with the questions I have. I hope anyone interested had no issues skimming through this! If you did, let me know and I will make some edits

I will make some later posts on how to make c-liquids, sprays, dipping solutions, and how to make strong, clean papers that will get into facilities. I have comprehensive info on how you can ship books from amazon, barnes & noble, local bookstores etc. If you want this info now hit me up on session messenger - ID: 057752929f128c5fc14fc80a527f7696a9b2b6f53cdcc933fad65a1746bbb0186a

Remember y’all… HE WHO CONTROLS THE SPICE CONTROLS THE UNIVERSE!

 

[rcprecursorUSA]

Another question I have - is 2-3 hours stirring & heating sufficient to drive this reaction to completion, or should I go with 4-5 hours like mentioned in some other write-ups?

 

[rcprecursorUSA]

I did TLC, after 3 hours conversion almost 100%, 4hours no precursor presented (ideally do 3-4 hours, but 2-3 hours is usually fine too)

 

[MK BELMONTS]

Damn! I'm proud of your explanation, I understand your complaints about everything.
Chinese labs producers really control the market, selling and advertising blindly on websites and social networks. They don't really use any chemical compounds so that customers have excellent quality. They use very fast methods to get money quickly, but after all, that's how large-scale business is. Is no longer concerned with quality and purity in final chemistry. It's a shame but what can I do? Many investors who don't understand chemistry are simply fooled by the system.

The moral message I will convey to you, share a video of how to make it, so that people can understand your explanation via text. so that your aims and objectives are perfect, bro.
So that people understand more quickly that the materials produced by Chinese manufacturers do not produce perfect purity.

 

[incomecam]

We're is a reliable vendor I can buy finished product from?

 

[CremdelaChem]

This is actually my write-up that this user just reposted & added some questions, used to work with this individual but I have heard some complaints about them recently. Thanks for the compliment about my explanations. I totally agree with your analysis of the current state of the chinese market, very insightful. Way too many chinese vendors are just taking shortcuts in production, not purifying or doing any sort of analytical verification of their precursors, just out of greed. This leaves so many customers worldwide buying very impure precursors, using them to produce impure products with unknown and possibly toxic/dangerous byproducts. Very sad, and it's why I encourage any final product producers who have the means to do their due diligence in sending out their product to 3rd party testing for analytical verification of purity & identity via GCMS/LCMS/HPLC/NMR etc. If you are selling product to end users without doing this, you are irresponsible & you are putting people's health & lives at risk.

If anyone needs pointers to 3rd party testing companies who can do this for reasonable prices in the US, just shoot me a PM. Do not endanger your customers. Greed & ignorance is the root of most of this evil.

 

[CremdelaChem]

I also STRONGLY encourage any manufacturers to take the time to learn this more advanced 2nd extraction method. Analytically verified 5f & 5cl made by just crashing the product out in ice water with the first method is almost NEVER higher purity than 70-80%, and who knows what kind of other junk you are leaving in the final product.

 

[WillD]

adb-pinaca-synthesis (video)

 

[benz4k]

did you use ice or dcm extraction, tried this writeup for mdmb-5br-inaca, stir 4h at 80C, but there isnt powder in ice water, only some oil

 

[CremdelaChem]

MDMB-5Br-INACA is not a suitable precursor or very commonly found for this procedure. It may work, but conversion would be poor and the reaction would not be driven to completion, leaving significant impurities that do not allow the final product to be crystallized nicely in ice water. Better options for precursors using this procedure are MDMB-INACA & 1H-Indazole-3-carboxylic acid methyl ester. Because MDMB-5Br-INACA is less common to find nowadays from Chinese factories, you were likely using another precursor that had some impurity.

Furthermore, a big problem for people trying this procedure out when they run into the problem of an oily final product instead of a powder when using ice water is that they do 1 of 2 things or both of these things.

1. They do not let the final reaction mixture cool to room temperature before pouring into the ice water, and or-
2. They pour the reaction mixture into the ice water too quickly & or without vigorous stirring & or without enough ice (pouring / introduction of rxn mix into the ice water needs to be NICEEE & SLOWWW with STRONG stirring)

If you did all this correctly, the precursor you were using was likely either not the correct identity or was impure. If this is the case, let me know if you need help sourcing the correct & pure main ingredient for a good 5cl-adb-a synth (5cl / MDMB-4en-PINACA). I can help anyone in the states get US to US precursor if you need too, otherwise it must be shipped from China-WW or US-WW, no good EU warehouses that I am connected with.

Definitely let me know as well if you'd like help performing the second advanced method of DCM/solvent-solvent extraction & purification via distillation & recrystallization from EtOH (ethanol). Though the 1st method of ice-cold water extraction works just fine for getting solid product if the starting reagents are pure enough, this second method, although more advanced and time/effort consumptive, will invariably leave the chemist with a far purer product that will stomp all over the current stuff your competitors are pushing on the market or streets.

I am happy to be of service in any way, any sort of questions involving 5cl synthesis can be directed to my PMs and I will help you out for free

 

[CremdelaChem]

Oh and another thing -- if you over or under heat this reaction, you will also be left with a final product stuck dissolved as an oil. If you are left with an oil, there are methods for recrystallizing the powder from the oil and a solvent, but they are somewhat involved for a new chemist. Can easily be done though with the right instruction, just let me know if guidance is needed.

 

[benz4k]

What method for recrystallizing? Need DCM or EtOH for solvent?

 

[CremdelaChem]

Here’s my write-up for the extraction & recrystallization procedure. Let me know if you have questions, I am here to answer & guide you if there is difficulty in understanding. Never hesitate to ask questions from the fear of looking stupid or ignorant. I am happy to make things more simple, but this overview will get you headed in the right direction.

---

Firstly, if there are significant impurities in the oil you’ve obtained, you can not go directly to the recrystallization procedure. You will first need to do a solvent-solvent extraction with water & DCM. To test if you can go directly to the re-x without having to do the entire extraction, you can take a small amount of the oil and go through the recrystallization procedure described at the bottom (be warned: trying this method without extracting first will leave you with bad xtals if there are too many nonpolar impurities that dissolve in the solvent along with the good stuff so try with a small amount).

If the below extraction method looks similar to the parent post, that's because it is. I am the original author of this particular write-up (not the inventor of the method though, of course!)

Second Extraction Method:

1. Once the reaction mixture is cooled to room temperature, add 2x the amount of water to the solution (i.e. - 2L if the rxn mixture is 1L)
   1. Then add 1L dichloromethane (DCM) while stirring for 10-20 minutes
2. Turn off stirring, and let the mixture stand for 10-20 minutes, there will be an oil layer and a water layer. The next step is easiest using a large separatory funnel (bottom layer is likely DCM - 1.33g/ml).
3. Pour the water layer into another container, add 800mL DCM to this, and stir for 10-20 minutes (or shake/flip the separatory funnel with frequent venting so your vessel does not explode), then turn off stirring or stop flipping and let stand for 10-20 minutes, then remove the water layer leaving you with another organic oil layer
4. Combine the 2 oil layers (DCM), add half the amount of saturated NaCl (brine) water (1:2 - brine : oil) and stir for 10 minutes, then turn off stirring and let stand for 15-30 minutes. Finally, drain the bottom oil layer & collect.
5. Take the oil layer (contains product) and distill it under vacuum (reduced pressure so you do not overheat). By doing this you will concentrate the oil (DCM containing product) in the boiling flask, and you will collect/recover the DCM from this oil as the first boiling fraction.
6. Weigh the weight of the oil obtained in the distillation, then add 1.5x that weight of anhydrous (absolute) ethanol while stirring (should be close to 1.5kg ethanol). If stirring is difficult, heat the mixture slightly.
7. Put the above solution into the freezer for 2 days — stir this solution on the first day of freezing. The ethanol will not freeze as its freezing temperature is under -100°C, far below that of a conventional freezer.
8. Take your solution out of the freezer, there will be a bunch of crystallized final product. Use a 300 mesh filter cloth to filter out the solid, and dry it naturally or under vacuum to get the finished crystal spice

---

General Recrystallization Procedure: Solvent Selection​

1. Single Solvent Method:
   • Ethanol is often a good starting point. You need to test the solubility of your “5cl” mixture (probably containing impurities) in ethanol at both room temperature and at its boiling point. You might have ended up with an entirely different cannabinoid (which would have a different solubility curve) due to the nature of us not really knowing exactly what precursors the Chinese labs are selling us…. unless you have NMR & mass spec at your disposal… light years ahead of my budget
   • If the compound is highly soluble in hot ethanol but only sparingly soluble in cold ethanol, ethanol is suitable.
   • Remember, MDMB-4en-PINACA aka 5cladba is nonpolar (weakly polar), and like dissolves like — meaning we need a nonpolar solvent (NPS) to do the job of dissolving a nonpolar molecule (5cl) while it is less like to dissolve polar contaminants, which we filter out (via hot vacuum filtration) before re-xing. If the compound you made does not fit this criteria, you will need to play around with other solvents like hexanes, toluene, DCM, etc.
2. Mixed Solvent Method:
   • If ethanol alone doesn't give a satisfactory recrystallization, you may need a second solvent, such as water or hexane, in which the compound is insoluble or less soluble. This approach can enhance crystallization by reducing solubility when cooled.

---

Steps for Recrystallization​

1. Dissolve the Compound:
   • Add the 5cl oil to a flask.
   • Add a minimum amount of hot ethanol to the flask such that there is still a tiny amount of undissolved solute (product) left over (we want a super-saturated solution). Heat the mixture gently on a hot plate or using a heating mantle to dissolve the compound completely. Ensure the ethanol is just at its boiling point.
2. Filter the Solution (if necessary):
   • If there are insoluble impurities, perform a hot filtration. Use a pre-warmed funnel and filter paper to avoid premature crystallization during filtration.
3. Cool the Solution:
   • Allow the hot, saturated solution to cool slowly to room temperature. Crystals should start to form as the solution cools.
   • Once at room temperature, further cool the solution in an ice bath or in the fridge / freezer (EtOH will not freeze in conventional freezers) to maximize crystallization.
4. Collect the Crystals:
   • Filter the mixture through a vacuum filtration setup to collect the crystals. Use a Büchner funnel and flask.
   • Wash the crystals with a small amount of cold ethanol & water to remove any adhering impurities.
5. Dry the Crystals:
   • Allow the crystals to dry completely, either by air drying or using a vacuum desiccator or vacuum chamber with drying agent inside it. DO NOT HEAT THE FINAL PRODUCT ABOVE 40-45°C — this will begin to decompose the 5cl-adb-a.

Tips for Successful Recrystallization​

• Purity of Solvents: Use high-purity ethanol to avoid introducing impurities.
• Controlled Cooling: Cooling too rapidly can result in the formation of smaller, less pure crystals. Do not throw in fridge immediately. Let it cool as slowly as possible!
• Minimum Solvent Use: Use the minimum amount of hot solvent such that the 5cl is at maximum concentration, this ensures high supersaturation upon cooling, promoting better crystal formation.

If you are in need of sourcing pure starting reagents (precursors & main ingredients), let me know & I can point you to some reputable vendors who can ship within or to your country safely

 

[incomecam]

I'm interested in the finished product can you point me in the right direction

 

[CremdelaChem]

Perfect temperature for this reaction is between 70 and 80 deg. celsius -- any more, and the workup will be a nightmare, any less, and the reaction will not go to completion, leaving impurities that will also inhibit solid crystallization.

 

[MK BELMONTS]

Stunning

 

[Celdren]

what is the ingredient no 1 and how you obtain it? the main ingredient

 

[Spraypourmagicnotfound]

mdmb-inaca, you can buy or synthesis

 

[arylcycloscopy]

Actually this is a very common misconception. The most popular precursor sold was MDMB-INACA, but this is much harder to find from the Chinese labs now. Most have switched over to using 1H-INDAZOLE-3-CARBOXYLIC ACID METHYL ESTER as the precursor for 5cl. I’m friends with the author of this post, they have confirmed the truth of this.

 

[CremdelaChem]

MDMB-INACA is a better reagent for this synthesis, but as my customer arylcycloscopy has stated, it is a bit harder to come by as it is on some chemical watch lists now in certain countries, whereas 1H-Indazole-3-carboxylic acid methyl ester is not. However, if you can source good & pure MDMB-INACA, this is generally a better option for these reaction conditions. We currently have MDMB-INACA in stock in our USA warehouse for US to US transit at the moment, stock is low though, but we do have it listed under the organic precursors section in reagents & equipment available for purchase via BBGate escrow exclusively.

Let us know if any guidance is needed about the synthesis, whether using our precursor or not!

 

[janet@gmail]

Yes I'm going to need guidance if I buy from your site (MDMB - INACA ) , is it still available?
What about the quality ?

 

[CremdelaChem]

Send me a pm janet

 

[serum207]

When the synthesis is finished and I fish the chunks out of the bucket, what is the best place to let it dry on ?
Can I leave it in my basement on a Table made out of glas for drying ?

 

[CremdelaChem]

Sure you can leave it on the table. Just make sure when drying not to use heat above 40°C. Break the chunks of powder into the finest pieces possible and it will dry a lot quicker. If you want more efficient drying you can also place paper towels or some other absorbent material on the table and pour the powder onto this which will help soak up the water. Since the powder is somewhat waxy a little bit might get stuck to the paper towels but this will be negligible. Just try to let the powder dry while broken up to the smallest particles possible & in the driest location possible and you will be fine!

Silica gel packets can also be used to absorb water & make it extra dry. A fan blowing over the powder & or a dehumidifier will also help. If you are making bulk amounts of the stuff and need a quicker solution for drying, you may want to order a cheap vacuum desiccator on amazon or ebay and place the powder inside one of these for very quick drying.

One of these 5 gallon vacuum chambers(https://www.ebay.com/itm/364327177324)& a vacuum pump along with the use of a drying agent in the chamber with your product will also do the trick, but are a bit more expensive. Just look up vacuum desiccator on ebay or amazon or any marketplace like that and you will find some nice $50-60 or possibly even cheaper pieces of this very useful equipment

 

[serum207]

Do you think I overcooked my Precursor ?.
I followed the instructions and Cooked the Precursor until it was at 73 C then I left it to stir for 3-4 hours, when I came back the Reaction was a Black/Green mass. Do you think It was Overcooked?