Cutting potent opioids without hotspots?

[tonymontana2023]

I am referring to the following substances:

1. Metonitazene (100x morphine)
2. Protonitazepyne (allegedly between metonitaze and protonitazene)
3. Metonitazepyne (unknown potency)
4. Etomethazene (2x fent)

Let's assume an addict who uses a bag (2gr) of 20% pure street dope a day. My questions are:

1. How much should I cut these products to produce a china white of equal potency?

2. How to do that safely, to avoid hotspots? (Anyone tried the method described in the fentanyl synthesis book from the beehive? )

Eg metonitazene is 100x morphine, so 50x pure heroin. But if person is used to only 20% pure heroin, then metonitazene is actually 250x stronger.

Thus 1g of metonitazene can produce 250g of street dope? Is it really that easy, why not everyone do it?

I know I am missing something here guys...

Anyone who took time to read thank you so much!

 

[TGSpecialist1]

My idea:
1. Dissolve your drug in amount of dry methanol(or similar solvent) equal to 5% or less weight of your carrying substrate.
2. Spread your substrate flat and apply the solution evenly with a dropper, syringe or spray bottle(if it can be done safely).
3. Mix your stuff with a spoon and dry at room temperature with occasional mixing.
4. When dry, mix your stuff with mortar and pestle or a blender, it should be no more than half full, don't do it in larger batches.
Done. what is your opinion?

 

[tonymontana2023]

Thanks for your answer brother.

What you describe sounds pretty similar to the guide from the beehive fent synth pdf. I certainly can't think of a better method myself

I only wanna ask, why step 4? Shouldn't (properly and responsibly) completing step 3 essentially mean everything (outside of grade v pharma mixer) has been done?

 

[TGSpecialist1]

To break up lumps.

 

[coast2coast]

is this how you would cut 100 % alprazolam so each pill would get a even amount i want to provide 2/3 mg per pill can you tell me the exact steps and equpment needed and will this work for xtc/alprazolam/fentanal......please provide detaled steps 1 more time
#harm reduction

 

[want2cook]

Did with similar guide: dissolved nitazene with manitol in solvent, mixed very well, and putted to +60C oven to evaporate, but i does not evaporate, after 24h in oven it become two layers - orange liquid on top and powders in the bottom. What should be done with that layer? simply pump out with hose? why it does not evaporate?

 

[gmane]

^^ sounds about right if its all powder ive seen people use stone tumblers to thoroughly mix powders but i dont know how efficent it is with such potent chems-- can you share the beehive PDF link with me ? Im sampling some protonitazene and some other novel opioids hard to find anything other then these zenes and maybe some U47700 which is only 7.5x more potent then morphine but still better then not knowing what your ingesting

 

[tonymontana2023]

Hi! I attach the link below

https://erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/fentanyl.html

Could you also let me know how potent is protonitazene? Thanks!

 

[gmane]

Ive read a couple of things but 130-200x more potent then morphine- also a rock tumbler with metal bbs is what he used! But im interested in hearing how this experiment works out.

 

[Moonbow112ix]

I can't for the life of me find anywhere to obtain a sample quantity other than what's on the streets, any chance of someone sharing some game?? I really would like to have a little experience with these benzimidazole analgesics in their pure form or the fentalogues, as the op stated there's potential if chopped up right to make a lot of medicine, I really am not looking for anything large I'd be happy with the point in a direction of someone trusted who wouldn't mind being compensated fairly for one compund or even if they had a few of the compound as I've heard of sampler packs to see what one is more preferred I'm not asking trying to sound like a brat fiend I haven't had the pleasure of someone with good iso, furrayl, eto, meto etc etc if nobody cares to even respond I understand I do, if you do however I will try and make it worth while the best I can

 

[Brain]

Hi! In general, you have a bit of a misunderstanding regarding the question of the difference in potency of the above opiates. Naturally, 1 gram of metonitazen does not lead to 250 grams of street opiates, that's a misunderstanding, sorry. When it comes to comparing the potency of opiates, several indicators are considered, with dose variation not being the primary criterion, but only a related and contributing factor. Thus, opiate potency is determined by Ki with respect to μ-, δ-, and κ-opioid receptors, as well as several other pharmacodynamic parameters. Suppose carfentanil is 10,000 times stronger than morphine, but that does not mean that the dose of morphine must be divided by 10,000 to produce equivalent effects.

As for grinding the suggested substances down to equivalent doses of china white, there is no need to divide them much (250 times). If you take a recreational oral dose of 500 mcg of a benzimidazole derivative called etomethasone, you would need to use it in a dose of 1000 mcg in order to get equivalent effects from china power. In case you were referring to titrating substances, it is best to titrate according to the volumetric liquid dosing method.

When it comes to the use of opiates, the main factor for safe use is proper dose titration using starting minimum doses as well as proper product purification.

I am attaching a table to your answer to help you understand the dose equivalents among some opiates.

If you have more questions, be sure to ask!​

 

[OrgUnikum]

The table says a common dose of Heroin is 25 mg and of Fentanyl its 25 ug. One milligram = 1000 ug, this would make Fentanyl one-thousand times as strong as Heroin what is definitivly wrong, the common estimation is 50 to 100 times as strong as morphine or heroin.
I remember I read a street dose of Heroin was estimated at 0,3 gram pure Heroin, this would fit better.
Somethings wrong for sure, I would love to know what. And for curiosity how would Carfentanyl fit into this scheme?

 

[Brain]

Hey, bro. The table is correct. Let's start at the beginning. You write that a street dose of heroin is estimated at 0.3 g - that's 300 mg. That's an extremely large dose of heroin, which would lead to an overdose.

The table shows a dose of 5 to 30 mg, depending on how you use it. I encourage you to read this information and pick up your experience - bbgate.com/threads/heroin.21/

 

[Dr.Mirakulix]

0,3 g pure Heroin sounds like way to much, especially for a first time User. Maybe 0,3 g street Heroin was meant. That seems more reasonable, if you assume an average purity of 5-10% and 15-30 mg Diacetylmorphine per 0,3g "serving".
But even then, I wouldn't advise this dosage to anyone opioid-naive and with untested substances, your Heroin could be much stronger than that, especially if bought online!

 

[middlemaneu]

@Dr.Mirakulix

(ps: did you check my last post at the bottom of this topic? I forgot to tag you, about the RCs Benzo on blotters)

Regarding Heroin potency, no table is correct - let's say that being very generous, we could say the est. potency would be 4x. But the superior receptors affinity makes it difficult to make a proper comparison (even if it would not have a big margin - let's say 2x-5x). The real problem is this table should have an edition for every country, and every USA State or even region!

There is such a huge difference in culture, tradition, and average tolerance over the standard beliefs of the proper tolerance that is impossible to adapt the dosage for the "average heroin user" tolerance.
In EU for most countries, Heroin sold online got a pretty good quality, and sadly(NOTE: "sadly" is a just a word I used for my absolute personal, subjective opinion and personal preference!) it will usually contain..heroin, and in case some cutting agent usually with a suitable PH for IV. Heroin #3 is not so popular - sadly (again, a sadly just for me - because I don't IV and I prefer to smoke/vape/snort opioids). Since my tolerance despite the efforts to keep it low.. just never return where I've been, I'd love to find anywhere in EU some heroin with fentalogues inside instead of real heroin. But we could say most EU Heroin user tolerance can be considered 4x morphine and with the average dosage as reported in most conversion table / avg dosage.
In USA it's the opposite: most low potency opioid users would be extremely happy to get HQ Heroin, and there are so many who are unaware of Zenes (buying either online or on streets), testing if what they bought is positive for fents - and if not, they believe they finally scored real heroin. And there you go - in this case, either such "heroin" is just cut with zenes, or fents, or one of the few strong opioid classes are possibly used (but never seen them in drugs lab checking). Talking with a lot of drugs users, vendors and resellers of both "street/social heroin", or luxury items (real heroin) - the first category is the one most sold, but oddly, the potency is way higher than the luxury items. The average for an heroin user in USA seems to be between 6x and 16x (this is an average of approx 800 people I've spoken with in this regard in the last 9 months). This statistic value is not verified nor I reccomend to any heroin user in the states, if they score real heroin, to just re-consider their dosage based on my statistic and risking an OD, especially if it ends uo to not be Heroin at al but last analogue of zenes pulled out from chinese, cut or not (well, it must be cut, or a dealer selling it without cutting and advertising as "heroin" won't have many customers left in a very short time..!

Take care,

 

[Brain]

special information 4 u:
bbgate.com/threads/chemical-weapons-fentanyl-part-i.7463/
bbgate.com/threads/chemical-weapons-fentanyl-part-ii.7467/

 

[Brain]

Oooh, I'm very pleased that you appreciate my work, bro!

Thanks to people like you, I have even more desire to publish interesting articles!

 

[middlemaneu]

You're welcome, for me you are very talented, because not only with a very accessible language and presentation of the concepts in a sequence easy to follow, you are helping to understand on 360° the various aspects about this class, but (I suppose) even for people with strong chemistry/pharmacology knowledge such wide coverage of a bit of everything can be used as reference to search then more advanced info. And congrats for the layout and style, it's very pleasant for the eyes too, making it even more comfortable Keep up the good job!
ps: it's allowed to link from other communities? or do you prefer to post directly on separate places the content?

 

[Fastfood]

Brother it's easy

 

[middlemaneu]

The table shown is definitely containing lot more interesting glorious opioids than the Etonitazene analogues, where basically almost all of them (Etazene and Ethomethazene aside, and just for the first 1-3 days maybe are slightly euphoric) are pretty sedative, just good for nodding or passing out - and aside this, probably the class destroying the tolerance just withing a few weeks of daily usage, where few months are needed to restore a decent one.

The potency of this class is totally a waste. The receptors affinity / enjoyable effects vs potency is really meaningless. A 15x-35x Opioids of other classes was way more enjoyable than the lowest potency (functional, there was a few ones less potent, but definitely with a terrible poor bioavailability or just working in a single RoA, except the 3x potency I can't recall the name yet) analogues of 70x, Metonitazene.

Many could claim this class is safer than the "evil and deadly" fentalogues just because... fentalogues were the first class causing a pandemic of such potencies. Therefore so much demonized. OK, Zenes got a slightly less respiratory depression effects, but from there to claiming they are safer... is a long step. Especially because the effects, unless taken IV, takes a while to kick in - even if smoked, there are 4-7 minutes before feeling the hit, compared to the almost instant body-mind-soul high of f-logues (and the bitter taste of zenes smoked).

Let's take Ketobemidone for example - 0.7x potency, but apparently when it was used instead of methadone as heroin subst, ended up to be preferred from heroin users than heroin. Therefore potency is not all, definitely.

Sure, to make millions by cutting zenes into synthetic heroin it is. To stay on maintenance if tolerance is totally gone since long is definitely cheap. And despite the ban in USA of all Zenes analogues, they keep coming - and even advertised as "not schedules" when they actually are. After a few Analogues that were -at least- had some researches and past studies behind them, now they are just playing lego/tetris/puzzles and see what's the outcome, without any care about the possible short-long term side effects, buyers are just chinese fav. guinea pigs.

Until this class will get banned from chinese gov., probably it will stay this way, where the RCs Opiods are either <some trash> (except O-DSMT, and only if tolerance is ridiculously low) < morphine potency, OR next step 70x potency. Nothing in the middle, not in the public scene at least.
Even because it's hard to think of another class (maybe 2, but both would be considered "too dangerous" because too similar to the original structure, or because precursors of such class are not allowed in china for manufacturing RCs) where it's possible to "mint out" such a big numbers of analogues. Thinking of manufacturing a new class every time a new compound get banned? too hard and not profitable, since the very few manufacturers are certainly not candidates for winning the best in opioids chemistry, seen the few RCs that could have been real game-changer for the scene, with a low potency but insane receptors affinity, that the messed up and gave up after the first attempt.

(end of rant

 

[OrgUnikum]

Fentalogues did not cause a pandemic. taking away the prescriptions for opiates and related medication without providing much of any help to over a million people who found themselves addicted and without legal way to feed the addiction, this caused a US centered sharp rise in demand for this kind of drugs and know what? Praise the almighty free market who fixed it in most efficient way and thats with Fentanyl.

A homemade problem with an easy fix - give the people back their scripts - was such transformed into a problem now affecting national security, or so they say and its treated as if it was a act of god or alternatively caused by the evil Chinese executing their masterplan to bring down the glorious US of A. None of whom had any hand in this. Not to say that China does not happily supply the chems needed as - first of all its free trade and you must take care yourself what happens to legal to trade stuff when it comes into your country and second that Fentanyl pulled the rug out under the long-standing funding of black CIA ops by money made from the heroin trade will give every CPC member a happy glee in the face. Me too.

Like the "war on drugs" the "opiod crisis" is a political means to help a political agenda and not what it is sold for.

 

[middlemaneu]

Thanks for your time taken to read my spam and your concise reply. I agree with you, the cause of pandemic was caused definitely from the US gov. itself. Even if I'm not in US, talking with so many people who are suffering and cannot have a normal life anymore, and here in EU doctors will practically never prescribe opioids as painkillers, but if you are an addicted you can get whatever, it's such a mindfuck society.

What was really a no-go IMO from china was to move to Etonitazene analogues and selling directly on clearnet. This class definitely it's a no-U-turn, tolerance get simply destroyed and for a very long time. People seeking opioids legally (now they are regardless banned, but production and distribution continues) - if moving to Zenes they take the same risk of ordering Fent (that is nowhere to be found regardless, except underground chemistry, organized crime, and in the streets with the whoknowsiftodayilldie compounds inside. Not saying Zenes will kill or won't be effective for chronic pain patients, if used very wisely, the analgestic potency is just totally out of range from the proper receptors affinity. And what if/when the same story will repeat, US gov forbidding China gov. any further Zenes analogue? There are not many classes left where you can mint out analogues. Chinese aim to lowest cost maximum profit. If the must start over and create a new class every time for strong opioids, probably the will drop the ball. Then it will be a REALLY bad bad bad times for zenes users.

 

[Dr.Mirakulix]

To avoid hotspots (basically with every potent substance, not only usable with opioids), mix it in a mortar with proportionally amounts of the cutting agents.

For example, if you want to cut Metonitazene in a 1:1000 proportion for easier dosage,
weigh up 1 mg Metonitazene and 1000 mg cutting agent.
Start with the Metonitazene and 1 mg cut in the mortar and mix it thoroughly. Now, add 2 mg cutting agent and mix it again, then 4, 8 and so on. Repeat this process until you've added and mixed all of the cutting agent. By using this tek, you'll avoid hot spots and have a very homogen mixture in the end without the need for any solvents .

 

[middlemaneu]

I heard about this strategy, but how can you be asolutely sure about no hotspots? the cutting agent must bind to the active compound and making sure to stay this way, and it could split again in case of conditions (temperature, humidity, over time, etc) changes.
An old vendor I knew had professional V-Mixer for doing the cuts, still even with those it's not a 100% free hotspot insurance
When it comes to zenes, I don't have personally made the process, but dilution and re-crystallization in the way you have a 100% hotspot free powder, seemed nothing too hard that can be done without specific skills set. I'm not doing any critics to your methods suggested, I was just asking myself how does it work exactly and how you can ensure the cut ratio stays over time the same inside a bag opening / closing / dropping out powder few times in a day

 

[Dr.Mirakulix]

Good questions that you're asking! I forgot to specify some details-my fault! This is extremely important when handling super potent substances.
For the cutting agent: The best thing for most situations is Mannitol mixed with 0,5% Silicium dioxide. It has very good flowing characteristics, is chemically inert and mixes very well with most other substances.
It would be highly advised to sieve both your active ingredient and cutting agent and bring them to the same grade of fineness. This will prevent later de-homogenization of your powder mixture.

Another point I forgot to specify (I am very sorry!) When mixing, always stir in the same direction, either clockwise OR counter clockwise! Otherwise you'll risk to de-mix the progress you've made. And always use a card (a playing card from a card game works perfectly fine) to scrap powder residue from the mortar walls, mix the substances with it and break clumpings in the powder.
And don't forget to rub the mortar walls with the cutting agent at first, otherwise you'll lose active ingredients in its pores.

A little trick to see if your powder is homogen and mixed well: Use some food colouring on the active ingredient. You'll be able to see any hotspot left in your powder and can remove it.

If you work with high precision from the beginning, changes in the cut ratio due to handling / opening / closing the bag won't be much of an issue.

I don't say it's the best or only technique everyone has to follow, but it's a tek that's used exactly like this in pharmacies when handling highly potent substances and is approved by many years of succesful use! (for example to manufacture atropine dilutions for further use with easier dosage and less weight differences)

Stay safe!

 

[middlemaneu]

Thanks a lot for your explanation, very useful indeed for a lot of resellers to prevent harm reduction and offer a properly cut compound!

Off-topic: Do you have experience / share some hints regarding RC benzos and blotters? I've spoken with few people who were doing RCs benzo blotters, but honestly I found several RC clearnet shop offering low-dosed (intentionally or not) blotters. 2 Years ago a vendor called Benzoland finally offered really good blotters, with a very precise dosage, and the correct compound. He told me about some RC Benzos are more suitable / simple to put on blotters (like Fluaprazolam), while others are more difficult requiring additional processing and a specific kind of paper to ensure not only a proper distribution of the active compound, but ensure it will be absorbed properly / not evaporate or deteriorating quickly. He was the only vendor I was able to find providing Bromazolam blotters. Since I've no scientific background I was wondering if you can share some hints on this matter - what stated from other users that it's the exact same process of doing LSD blotters I don't think it applies exactly the same with RC benzos to have properly dosed and qualitative blotters.
Thanks!

 

[Dr.Mirakulix]

Hello my friend, unfortunately I don't have experience in laying Benzo on blotter. But I know a gut who does. He uses the same technique one would use with Acid blotters with rather pleasing results. He does it with Bretazenil and Rilmazafone though, I'm not too sure about Bromazolam. Hope someone with more expertise on the topic can add something!
Kind regards