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Phenylacetone (P2P) Synthesis Via BMK Ethyl Glycidate

1) BMK ethyl glycidate synthesis from benzaldehyde.
2) BMK glycidic acid (sodium salt) synthesis BMK ethyl glycidate.
3) Phenylacetone (P2P) synthesis from BMK glycidic acid (sodium salt).

https://bbgate.com/threads/phenylacetone-p2p-synthesis-via-bmk-ethyl-glycidate.7549/
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Reactions: Lip, Cryptos82, 2-79-790125 and 18 others
M
G.Patton said:
Please, do not mislead people here. Watch the video carefully before write such useless comments...
Click to expand...
definitely not trying mislead anyone. ignore my previous comment.

at the end of the video it describes the end product as being 'BMK oil', but in the initial title at the 3rd and final step it says; 'Phenylacetone (P2P) synthesis from BMK glycidic acid (sodium salt)'.

i didn't know that the 'BMK oil' was synonymous with P2P. (although i should have).
 
CaptainSandoz
mithyl2 said:
definitely not trying mislead anyone. ignore my previous comment.

at the end of the video it describes the end product as being 'BMK oil', but in the initial title at the 3rd and final step it says; 'Phenylacetone (P2P) synthesis from BMK glycidic acid (sodium salt)'.

i didn't know that the 'BMK oil' was synonymous with P2P. (although i should have).
Click to expand...
BenzylMethylKetone (p2p)
 
btcboss2022
I can't find the water solubility data of BMK glycidic acid (sodium salt) Cas 5449-12-7, someones knows it?
Thanks.
 
btcboss2022
btcboss2022 said:
I can't find the water solubility data of BMK glycidic acid (sodium salt) Cas 5449-12-7, someones knows it?
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Or how many ml are aprox in the last water layer before HCL hydrolysis?And gr of sodium salt of it theoretically? Thanks.
 
the money
Thank you for all your efforts I really wish we had a video about the P2P synthesis from Benzaldehyde and Methyl ethyl ketone (MEK)

As you know anyone can supply methyl ethyl ketone (MEK) from shops and there is also a video for you of benzaldehyde synthesis




Also, anyone can supply all the chemicals here from stores or they can be synthesized like

Chloroform
Hydrogen peroxide
Glacial acetic acid
 
O
That final oil is extremely contaminated so you must vacum distill it properl with att least 22 mm/Hg vacuum source (aspirator will do fine). The lighter color of ther P2P oil the cleaner it is, simple as that, if it'äs still yellow orangish after first vac-distillation then run it once more vac-.dustillation and you will have a very light yellow colored P2P (which basically means it has extremely low contamination and is very pure). Orange P2P is crap, tat won't do if you want clean end product
 
O
You are probably the mbest online cemist ever when it comes to speed and meth, extremely well performed synthesis' all of them here. I'm impressed ass hell and that's the forst time ever I said that to anyone :)
 
I
Hi regards to all EXPERTS i am new in this forum.. My question is if I use heliotropin(piperonal) instead of benzadehyde and follow the samne procedure will i get pmk as final product ? Pls reply exprerts i will mean a lot.. Thank you
 
I
INDIANELK2 said:
Hi regards to all EXPERTS i am new in this forum.. My question is if I use heliotropin(piperonal) instead of benzadehyde and follow the samne procedure will i get pmk as final product ? Pls reply exprerts i will mean a lot.. Thank you
Click to expand...
Pls reply 🥺 experts
 
G.Patton
INDIANELK2 said:
Hi regards to all EXPERTS i am new in this forum.. My question is if I use heliotropin(piperonal) instead of benzadehyde and follow the samne procedure will i get pmk as final product ? Pls reply exprerts i will mean a lot.. Thank you
Click to expand...
Hello, I can't answer you for sure because we haven't try this way. I guess that this synthesis may be impossible by reason that carbon atom of carbonyl group is less electroscopic. Anyway, it's just by assumption. I need to carry out experiments to figure it out.
 
I
G.Patton said:
Hello, I can't answer you for sure because we haven't try this way. I guess that this synthesis may be impossible by reason that carbon atom of carbonyl group is less electroscopic. Anyway, it's just by assumption. I need to carry out experiments to figure it out.
Click to expand...
Okay thanks pls share results if you ever conduct experiments 👍thanks for reply
 
F
INDIANELK said:
Pls reply 🥺 experts
Click to expand...
If you've got Heliotropin, I'd suggest forgetting about MDMA, and go for MDA instead. Should be able to make a nitro compound with the Heliotropin, and then reduce it. It's pretty straightforward, and not-to-messy chemistry. Which I find frustrating, because I can get pretty much everything *but* Heliotropin for some stupid reason. Yeah, man: consider MDA instead.
 
I
Field7 said:
If you've got Heliotropin, I'd suggest forgetting about MDMA, and go for MDA instead. Should be able to make a nitro compound with the Heliotropin, and then reduce it. It's pretty straightforward, and not-to-messy chemistry. Which I find frustrating, because I can get pretty much everything *but* Heliotropin for some stupid reason. Yeah, man: consider MDA instead.
Click to expand...
Yes in my country I can get nitroethane and heliotropin at very reasonable prices so you suggest to make
MDP2NP -> MDA
Which would be the best route
 
F
INDIANELK said:
Yes in my country I can get nitroethane and heliotropin at very reasonable prices so you suggest to make
MDP2NP -> MDA
Which would be the best route
Click to expand...
Hey, Man. Nice to hear from you.

I have a very convenient answer for you: There's a really nice video on this site that illustrates the reduction of P2NP to Amphetamine using a Sodium Borohydride + Cuprous Chloride system. All you need to do is substitute an equa-molar amount of MDP2NP. That's it.

There's a bunch of other ways, but I think that with regards to having 1) Clear instruction 2) Acceptable yield 3) Being cost effective 4) Ease of material accessibility and 4) No need for especially costly equipment... that's your way to go: follow that video, and substitute that nitro-compound with an equa-molar amount of yours.

The only changes I'd make are to steam distill your end product for purity, make a Hcl salt instead. Why Hcl, you ask? I believe it's more water soluble than the sulfate, which should aide in absorption, especially by insufflation... and besides, it's just a personal bias of mine. Tradition, maybe even.

The Chinese are funny about selling Piperonal for some reason (yes, I know. But..), but not countries in Asia Minor (eg India). I don't have a reliable source, though, and wouldn't buy from someone if they approached me. Sucks for me, but *yay* for you.

Feel free to PM me and let me know how it goes, or if you have sensitive questions... but if you have general questions, please post them so everyone can learn.

I'm editing this for a side note. For anyone with PMK, you can produce and oxime instead, and then substitute an equa-molar amount of the oxime in the very same.... I'll say "recipe" in this case.

So many possibilities. Fun stuff...
 
Last edited:
A
The sodium salt form will be more water-soluble due to the ionic nature of the salt. When you hydrolyze the sodium salt of BMK glycidate in the presence of hydrochloric acid (HCl), the acid will protonate the glycidate anion to form the BMK glycidic acid, which then undergoes further hydrolysis to produce phenylacetone and other products.

The presence of the sodium cation (from the sodium salt) and the chloride anion (from the HCl) will result in the formation of sodium chloride (NaCl) as a side product in the aqueous layer.

If you perform a liquid-liquid extraction after the reaction, phenylacetone will most likely be in the organic layer due to its organic nature, while the sodium chloride and any unreacted sodium salt of BMK glycidate will remain in the aqueous layer. To further purify, for distillation to be effective, there should be a significant difference in the boiling points of the compounds in the mixture. Phenylacetone has a boiling point around 214°C. I think most potential impurities resulting from this method can be separated effectively through vacuum distillation to lower the boiling point and lessen the risk of decomposition.
 
jasper
i have the bmk in powder cas 5449-12-7 what should i add and from where i should follow the video
what is the process of powder ??
can you help me ?
 
jasper
how i can turn cas 5449-12-7 liquid and from where i can follow the video process
can you give one by one steps?
got stuck in this will be thankful for guidance
 
jasper
what should i do before HCL can someone give me steps to do so i can continue with HCL
what ratio ethonal etc i need to mix?
 
Last edited:
Paranoia
@G.Patton Sir not easy to get access to Ethyl 2-chloropropionate (I ve found @Merk) but to initiate an account must be a company, do you know I can switch with another chemical?Which one?Or maybe a way to get it less regulate?....Thank you so much ;)
 
Paranoia
Paranoia said:
@G.Patton Sir not easy to get access to Ethyl 2-chloropropionate (I ve found @Merk) but to initiate an account must be a company, do you know I can switch with another chemical?Which one?Or maybe a way to get it less regulate?....Thank you so much ;)
Click to expand...
Everyone has to begin in life, and in chemistry too, so I found that it's not difficult substance to find, I just have to read it carefully, which I didn't do properly. In short, CAS number: 535-13-7 Ethyl 2-chloropropionate, it's also more easily known as Ethyl Lactate and can be found on this wonderful site open to everyone. ( I dont know if I m aloud to write down a site link? well I did it) :)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
G.Patton
Paranoia said:
@G.Patton Sir not easy to get access to Ethyl 2-chloropropionate (I ve found @Merk) but to initiate an account must be a company, do you know I can switch with another chemical?Which one?Or maybe a way to get it less regulate?....Thank you so much ;)
Click to expand...
You can use Methyl 2-chloropropionate, but you have to recount amounts of reagent proportionally in molar ratio.
Have you tried to search around Reagents&Equipment section? There are several vendors of Ethyl 2-chloropropionate.
 
Paranoia
G.Patton said:
You can use Methyl 2-chloropropionate, but you have to recount amounts of reagent proportionally in molar ratio.
Have you tried to search around Reagents&Equipment section? There are several vendors of Ethyl 2-chloropropionate.
Click to expand...
Thank U Sir, everything is fine found in a regular chemist online shop, I have a few orders in escrow, typically in almost a week I should be ready to start my work (Hope everything will go very well) I ll give you a few update about it...if you don't mind...
Best regards :)
 
F
G.Patton said:
You can use Methyl 2-chloropropionate, but you have to recount amounts of reagent proportionally in molar ratio.
Have you tried to search around Reagents&Equipment section? There are several vendors of Ethyl 2-chloropropionate.
Click to expand...
I scored accounts decades ago with several massive companies like Merck. Having a company is largely just a matter of having paperwork. The "company" doesn't have to have a physical presence, or actually do anything. It can simply sit on a shelf... Sometimes literally. Hong Kong is a great place to open a shelf company (not shell company, though it is). Hong Kong is where paperwork goes to die, and besides, they're not telling any foreign investigators anything: foreign investigators may as well ask for State secrets while they're at it, because they'll get similarly helpful responses either way. There's actually a market for shelf companies... especially old ones that have established credit... However, fuck Merck. Way to expensive. Follow the gentleman's ⬆️ instructions. If you get desperate, PM me, but do the other thing first because I'm busy and lazy. Use escrow, or it's a 100% "I told you so" situation.
 
E
Hallo guys.
I bought finished BMK Ethyl Glycidate sodium salt (CAS 5449-12-7) from China.
I tried to change it into oil by using informations from this video.

So I soluted it in destilled Water. And than I followed the steps from this video here.
1. I switched on the stirrer and added equivalent amount of Hydrolic Acid (37%) step by thep with dripping funnel.
2. I heated to 60°C - 70°C and stirred everything for 5 hours.

Everything looked like in this video.

BUT when I switched off the stirrer the two layers formed was the opposite (The oily layer was directly on the bottom.

I seperated with a dripping funnel. The bottom layer had oily substance and smelled sweet, like expected.

I put it in a bottle to use it for further synthesis.

After some time (45min) is was getting more viscous and some white clumps appeared.

I started further synthesis anyway with half of amount (without any success)

The other half I storred and after one hour it was getting a dirty white solid.

Can anybody tell me what was going wrong and what are my mistakes?

Thank you a lot and very best regards ;-)
 
A
Where did you source the bmk powder from? We have found recent chinese sources have failed to convert, but it could be your method. Try a 15% HCL solution x5 by weight of the bmk sodium salt eg 500g bmk sodium salt with 2500ml 15% HCL acid. Heat and stir to 100 degrees celcius for 2 hours. This can also be done with 30% citric acid solution as the acid. Higher conversion rates using citric acid.
 
E
Thank you very much for the answers.
I also heard that phosphoric acid will work better. Do you have experiences with phosphoric acid or with citric-acid-solution?
If yes, I would be very happy to know a step by step manual for this work.

The source I bought it is trustfull. A friend of mine ordered BMK-Malonate there and was satisfied. With the powder (sodium salt) this guy had sucess in very small yield (33%) .
He worked the same way, like in the video with concentrated HCL
This was the same charge like mine.
 
G.Patton
experimentsci said:
Hallo guys.
I bought finished BMK Ethyl Glycidate sodium salt (CAS 5449-12-7) from China.
I tried to change it into oil by using informations from this video.

So I soluted it in destilled Water. And than I followed the steps from this video here.
1. I switched on the stirrer and added equivalent amount of Hydrolic Acid (37%) step by thep with dripping funnel.
2. I heated to 60°C - 70°C and stirred everything for 5 hours.

Everything looked like in this video.

BUT when I switched off the stirrer the two layers formed was the opposite (The oily layer was directly on the bottom.

I seperated with a dripping funnel. The bottom layer had oily substance and smelled sweet, like expected.

I put it in a bottle to use it for further synthesis.

After some time (45min) is was getting more viscous and some white clumps appeared.

I started further synthesis anyway with half of amount (without any success)

The other half I storred and after one hour it was getting a dirty white solid.

Can anybody tell me what was going wrong and what are my mistakes?

Thank you a lot and very best regards ;-)
Click to expand...
1. I switched on the stirrer and added equivalent amount of Hydrolic Acid (37%) step by thep with dripping funnel.
Click to expand...
What pH have you reached?

After some time (45min) is was getting more viscous and some white clumps appeared.
Click to expand...
Sounds like there is the underacted sodium glycidate.

The source I bought it is trustfull.
Click to expand...
Have you checked its melting point before reaction? In chemistry science there in no word "trusted". There are words "checked" or "tested". Every reagent can be polluted or spoiled even from a good supplier. It's recommended to check your reagents before every synthesis to be sure that they are not in charge of your fail.

Alkahest said:
Where did you source the bmk powder from? We have found recent chinese sources have failed to convert, but it could be your method. Try a 15% HCL solution x5 by weight of the bmk sodium salt eg 500g bmk sodium salt with 2500ml 15% HCL acid. Heat and stir to 100 degrees celcius for 2 hours. This can also be done with 30% citric acid solution as the acid. Higher conversion rates using citric acid.
Click to expand...
try a 15% HCL solution x5 by weight
Click to expand...
It's worth to reach pH 0-1 as said in tutorial. There is no sense add more acid because it's just a down the drain. pH 0-1 is already shows its an excess.

In general, there is no difference what acid do you use: citric, hydrochloric or phosphoric. Here are important its amount, sodium glycidate purity and its conversion into P2P during reaction.
 
E
Hallo, thank you a lot for the answers. And a happy new year.

I did not check the PH-scale and I did not test my reagents before using them, but I will do in future. Thank you a lot for this advice.

So I can use every acid, I have in my hands, it is just important to reach PH 0-1 ?

Is it possible that my bad result is, because I put to much acid inside?

If I have finished BMK Ethyl Glycidate sodium salt (CAS 5449-12-7), than I have start at point 18 of your tutorial
( https://bbgate.com/threads/phenylacetone-p2p-synthesis-via-bmk-ethyl-glycidate.7549/ ) correct?

So the finished BMK Ethyl Glycidate sodium salt (CAS 5449-12-7) will be soluted in destilled water and than I start with adding the acid?
 
B
if one has 5449-12-7 powder would he start at step 12 ?

12. The stirrer is turned on. NaOH 30% aq. Solution 450 mL is slowly added to the reaction mixture. A reaction mixture temperature has to be maintained below <30°C.
13. Next, the reaction mixture is stirred for 12 h at room temperature.
14. After a while, distilled water 500 ml is added and the mixture is heated a little (no more than 60°C).
15. Benzene, toluene or other similar solvent 500 ml is poured into the heated reaction mixture.
16. The stirrer is turned off. The layers are formed.
17. With help of the separating funnel, the reaction by-products are extracted (not previously distilled ester by-products). The water layer with dissolved BMK glycidic acid (sodium salt) is separated back into the flask.
 
J
bobbrown1488 said:
so bmk oil is p2p ? why does it look so different from p2np to p2p
Click to expand...
1-Phenyl-2-propanone P2P, is also known as benzyl methyl ketone and to awnser your question it’s not the cleanest reaction and forms side product with the p2p, note: p2np is pretty different structurally from p2p and alkyl(like methyl or ethyl) BMK glycidate can be directly reduced to amphetamine or “converted” into p2p via Fe HCl
 
D
Did u fix
experimentsci said:
Hallo guys.
I bought finished BMK Ethyl Glycidate sodium salt (CAS 5449-12-7) from China.
I tried to change it into oil by using informations from this video.

So I soluted it in destilled Water. And than I followed the steps from this video here.
1. I switched on the stirrer and added equivalent amount of Hydrolic Acid (37%) step by thep with dripping funnel.
2. I heated to 60°C - 70°C and stirred everything for 5 hours.

Everything looked like in this video.

BUT when I switched off the stirrer the two layers formed was the opposite (The oily layer was directly on the bottom.

I seperated with a dripping funnel. The bottom layer had oily substance and smelled sweet, like expected.

I put it in a bottle to use it for further synthesis.

After some time (45min) is was getting more viscous and some white clumps appeared.

I started further synthesis anyway with half of amount (without any success)

The other half I storred and after one hour it was getting a dirty white solid.

Can anybody tell me what was going wrong and what are my mistakes?

Thank you a lot and very best regards ;-)
Click to expand...
The problem
 
T
Jeff_goldbloom said:
1-Phenyl-2-propanone P2P, is also known as benzyl methyl ketone and to awnser your question it’s not the cleanest reaction and forms side product with the p2p, note: p2np is pretty different structurally from p2p and alkyl(like methyl or ethyl) BMK glycidate can be directly reduced to amphetamine or “converted” into p2p via Fe HCl
Click to expand...
Can BMK glycidate be directly reduced into p2p substituting Iron ii chloride for Mercury Ii Chloride?
 
T
A decade ago we were using a BMK powder which you could make into a solution with Methanol and drip it straight into the al/hg without the need of hydrolysis or Purification... You could do the whole synthesis in 1 night? These new BMK Sodium salts your doing 2 days of prep work like WTF.
Jeff_goldbloom said:
i misspoke, i meant P2NP can be directly reduced to amphetamine or “converted” into p2p via Fe HCl.
Click to expand...
 
2
Throw-off said:
A decade ago we were using a BMK powder which you could make into a solution with Methanol and drip it straight into the al/hg without the need of hydrolysis or Purification... You could do the whole synthesis in 1 night? These new BMK Sodium salts your doing 2 days of prep work like WTF.
Click to expand...
Tell me more....... : )
 
Ihml
Jeff_goldbloom said:
i misspoke, i meant P2NP can be directly reduced to amphetamine or “converted” into p2p via Fe HCl.
Click to expand...
Fe/HCl can reduce nitro group to amine, but it can’t reduce double bonds. So no, it can’t be directly reduced to amphetamine.
 
C
Ya don’t know what happened to @btcboss2022 do you got a random message of someone in here saying he is his good friend and sent me a telegram and this guy supposedly by boss was now asking me to send 2000£ come on ya must get out of bed early to get an old dog like me I told him hahwhwhw but meet up with BTC personally was good man with good knowledge
 
The-Hive
Cryptos82 said:
Ya don’t know what happened to @btcboss2022 do you got a random message of someone in here saying he is his good friend and sent me a telegram and this guy supposedly by boss was now asking me to send 2000£ come on ya must get out of bed early to get an old dog like me I told him hahwhwhw but meet up with BTC personally was good man with good knowledge
Click to expand...
hes a china seller
 
S
Seems like everyone is asking what if they already have the BMK Salt.
Just add water to the bmk salt. 1g water to 1g of bmk salt. However you might need a little more water just to get it to a watery solution.
Yes, it will form up when mixing it in however some drops of the acids will bring down the form so it can be mixed in better. Let it all get mixed good and formed/bubble up before adding a little bit of acid to get the bubble/form down. Then keep on mixing before dropping more acid.

if you get chucks at the end, you didnt mix it in long enough and mix it right. unreacted bmk salts, most likely. Bring the ph to below 1, nice and slowly, dont just drop all the acid in, do it slowly over a period of 1/2 hours. bring the heat up slowly with a water/oil bowl so the whole flask can heat up equally, took me 45/60 mins of heating to get to 60. Let it be for 5 hours, with good mixing speed. When you turn off the heat after 5 hours, leave the mixer on for another 40 mins while the heat goes away.

PH is very important, get it to 1/0 and let it mix together for another 15 mins to be sure that its all mixed very well before starting the heating slowly up. You wont see the oil until you hit the ph1/2, then thick oily lay comes, even before heating it up.
 
A
the money said:
Thank you for all your efforts I really wish we had a video about the P2P synthesis from Benzaldehyde and Methyl ethyl ketone (MEK)

As you know anyone can supply methyl ethyl ketone (MEK) from shops and there is also a video for you of benzaldehyde synthesis




Also, anyone can supply all the chemicals here from stores or they can be synthesized like

Chloroform
Hydrogen peroxide
Glacial acetic acid
Click to expand...
What are some alternatives to Ethyl 2-chloropropionate that can be freely purchased? I am looking for substances that can be used in similar applications but are more readily available
 

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