DMT and other tryptamine synth questions….please help…

Rabidreject

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Okay so I have two syntheses of n,n-DMT and a rough idea of a synth for DET also.
I have a couple of questions that I really need answering. I am not going to list the steps or anything, just the general gist of what happens in them or how they differ and why that confuses me.
I have done the MHRB extraction - many times before and it’s what got me interested in organic chemistry as a hobby.
I am aware of two syntheses for turning tryptamine freebase into n,n-DMT and potentially DET, with just a slight tweak.
Okay so, I call the two different methods the hamiltons crazy three eye balaclava guy’s synth or a Reddit synth.
I have seen links to both of these on this forum so it’s not like I’m coming up with anything new but I’m concerned about the Hamilton’s mad guys route due to hearing mumbles about him saying they actually did something different to the synthesis he gives but honestly it looks fine to me - the thing I don’t really understand is that at the end of Hamilton’s video he says - “after the rxn mixture has sat to completion, you use PH manipulation anagolous to when you do it from plant matter.
So seeing as it utilises STAB, made in situ just before running the rxn, instead of standard NaBH4, it is going to already be acidic I would imagine (due to using glacial acetic acid to make the STAB) but if not - do I literally use the exact same things for the acids and alkali’s one would use in a MHRB extraction (5% white vinegar + NaOH)?
Secondly, I am assuming you wouldn’t extract it using naptha, due to it being a low quality petroleum product, as opposed to something like chloroform or DCM? I also have access to diethyl-ether but I’m not sure if it’s the correct polarity. Oh yeh one more question about this synthesis is why do they need to use PH manipulation to ‘extract’ the DMT from this RM and yet they don’t say to do that in the second synthesis? - it seems like this synth makes it easier to x’stalise than the second one.
I have DEFINITELY heard of people crystallising from boiling hexane, as is mentioned in the second synth I found.

Okay so for this one - yes, I know it came from Reddit and isn’t the best source - I say that like most of Reddit stuff is realistic and likely to work, which when you delve into this subject some things seem to have been written by people who actually understand the subject and others just write bullshit. This one seems okay and isn’t SO different to the first, it all has to be carried out at <= 0 degrees c - same as the other.
It also utilises a lot of the same reagents; tryptamine, formaldehyde and sodium borohydride being the three standard molecules iv seen people use to make tertiary tryptamines.
The difference being, I am assuming that NaBH4 isn’t as ‘strong’ of a reducer as STAB, because you have to do two seperate reductions, adding more boro to take it from NMT to DMT in the second synth. He also doesn’t use PH manipulation to try to crystalise it and instead cleans it up first as an oil and then he /she crystalises from boiling hexane.
I guess it’s hard for people to chime in if they’ve not seen either synth so here is a link to the Hamilton one (I went to settings in pootube and slowed it down to half speed, I believe) Hamiltons way.
Then you need a link to the second synthesis of it which is here: Mr Reddit’s Way.
I am really hoping you can help me to be honest as I’m a little flummoxed….
Oh and also - iv seen that if you substitute the formaldehyde for acetaldehyde that it would essentially form DET…although I’m pretty sure he just wrote to use NaBH4 for that - he also uses just NaBH4 for his 5-meo-DMT synthesis as well which leads me to think this is his preferred chem to use over STAB but then again, the crazy chemist says stab is better for carbonyl’s.
I’m not short on tryptamine AT ALL, seeing as you are pretty much forced into buying en-mass from China - or decarb it yourself from tryptophan but that’s a horrible rxn to do and it is better run in an inert atmosphere or under vacuum to bring down the boiling point. Anyway I abandoned that project - it’s not an ideal first rxn to complete!
The thing I like about the second RXN method is it doesn’t use up my VERY limited supply of DCE and glacial acetic acid. Obviously tryptamine is fairly heavy as a molecule and therefore it means you end up using more solvents and acids - or I guess I should say, it utilises harder to obtain solvents and acids than the second method.
I think I plan on trying the second method first to be honest. I may well take a trip back to rhodium and see what the synths are saying on there as iv not checked there in a while - certainly not since iv had tryptamine.

If someone is able to clear up literally ANY of these questions I’d be incredibly grateful. I’m awaiting getting paid tomorrow to be able to buy more anhydrous methanol and will most likely buy some dry ice (I have plenty of acetone) which should keep it nice and cold.

It just makes sense to me that you would alter the PH in order to manipulate the product, clean it up a little and allow it to x’stalise. Then re-x….and probably re-x again given that I’ll most likely be doing either subcutaneous injections or if I can get a drip machine / medicinal infusion machine, I can ride the waves and explore the DMT-scape a little better and maybe be able to remember a little more….

Also, I know there is a lot in this post - if you have performed this RXN personally could you possibly chime in and let me know which method you went about it in? I am not looking to milk the cash cow here - this is literally for my learning as well as maybe my own personal use. I heard yesterday on hamiltons podcast there is a company in Spain that will test alkaloid content of organic matter as well as doing GCMS on whatever sample you send in….pretty exciting stuff - probably WAY outside my budget but we’ll see!
It’s funny how tryptamine smells like DMT. That sort of plasticky type smell - I’m not willing to see if it tastes the same when inhaled though!!
On a more serious note - although I may not get it tested professionally, I will be doing TLC to make sure the RXN is complete - trouble is my glass plates are MASSIVE. Could I get a glass cutter and cut the silicon sprayed plates from 20cmx10cm to 10cmx5cm. Then i would have 5 much smaller plates that will actually fit into a beaker I own instead of having to buy a huge beaker to do any TLC…
Also; watching hamiltons 5-meo-DMT synthesis that he does in Mexico; I noticed he used paper TLC for the same reason and his pieces of paper are about the same size I would score and knock the glass off as. I’m just wondering how he can get away with using paper for TLC when everyone else I have spoken to says that you should be using glass plates sprayed with silicon - I just didn’t look at the size! I have a black light for said usage but if I can get away with using some sort of paper TLC that’s going to be easier.
Thanks in advance - sorry this post is a bit is a scatter of chaos!
Hope you can help with at least something!
RR
 

Rabidreject

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Okay so I have two syntheses of n,n-DMT and a rough idea of a synth for DET also.
I have a couple of questions that I really need answering. I am not going to list the steps or anything, just the general gist of what happens in them or how they differ and why that confuses me.
I have done the MHRB extraction - many times before and it’s what got me interested in organic chemistry as a hobby.
I am aware of two syntheses for turning tryptamine freebase into n,n-DMT and potentially DET, with just a slight tweak.
Okay so, I call the two different methods the hamiltons crazy three eye balaclava guy’s synth or a Reddit synth.
I have seen links to both of these on this forum so it’s not like I’m coming up with anything new but I’m concerned about the Hamilton’s mad guys route due to hearing mumbles about him saying they actually did something different to the synthesis he gives but honestly it looks fine to me - the thing I don’t really understand is that at the end of Hamilton’s video he says - “after the rxn mixture has sat to completion, you use PH manipulation anagolous to when you do it from plant matter.
So seeing as it utilises STAB, made in situ just before running the rxn, instead of standard NaBH4, it is going to already be acidic I would imagine (due to using glacial acetic acid to make the STAB) but if not - do I literally use the exact same things for the acids and alkali’s one would use in a MHRB extraction (5% white vinegar + NaOH)?
Secondly, I am assuming you wouldn’t extract it using naptha, due to it being a low quality petroleum product, as opposed to something like chloroform or DCM? I also have access to diethyl-ether but I’m not sure if it’s the correct polarity. Oh yeh one more question about this synthesis is why do they need to use PH manipulation to ‘extract’ the DMT from this RM and yet they don’t say to do that in the second synthesis? - it seems like this synth makes it easier to x’stalise than the second one.
I have DEFINITELY heard of people crystallising from boiling hexane, as is mentioned in the second synth I found.

Okay so for this one - yes, I know it came from Reddit and isn’t the best source - I say that like most of Reddit stuff is realistic and likely to work, which when you delve into this subject some things seem to have been written by people who actually understand the subject and others just write bullshit. This one seems okay and isn’t SO different to the first, it all has to be carried out at <= 0 degrees c - same as the other.
It also utilises a lot of the same reagents; tryptamine, formaldehyde and sodium borohydride being the three standard molecules iv seen people use to make tertiary tryptamines.
The difference being, I am assuming that NaBH4 isn’t as ‘strong’ of a reducer as STAB, because you have to do two seperate reductions, adding more boro to take it from NMT to DMT in the second synth. He also doesn’t use PH manipulation to try to crystalise it and instead cleans it up first as an oil and then he /she crystalises from boiling hexane.
I guess it’s hard for people to chime in if they’ve not seen either synth so here is a link to the Hamilton one (I went to settings in pootube and slowed it down to half speed, I believe) Hamiltons way.
Then you need a link to the second synthesis of it which is here: Mr Reddit’s Way.
I am really hoping you can help me to be honest as I’m a little flummoxed….
Oh and also - iv seen that if you substitute the formaldehyde for acetaldehyde that it would essentially form DET…although I’m pretty sure he just wrote to use NaBH4 for that - he also uses just NaBH4 for his 5-meo-DMT synthesis as well which leads me to think this is his preferred chem to use over STAB but then again, the crazy chemist says stab is better for carbonyl’s.
I’m not short on tryptamine AT ALL, seeing as you are pretty much forced into buying en-mass from China - or decarb it yourself from tryptophan but that’s a horrible rxn to do and it is better run in an inert atmosphere or under vacuum to bring down the boiling point. Anyway I abandoned that project - it’s not an ideal first rxn to complete!
The thing I like about the second RXN method is it doesn’t use up my VERY limited supply of DCE and glacial acetic acid. Obviously tryptamine is fairly heavy as a molecule and therefore it means you end up using more solvents and acids - or I guess I should say, it utilises harder to obtain solvents and acids than the second method.
I think I plan on trying the second method first to be honest. I may well take a trip back to rhodium and see what the synths are saying on there as iv not checked there in a while - certainly not since iv had tryptamine.

If someone is able to clear up literally ANY of these questions I’d be incredibly grateful. I’m awaiting getting paid tomorrow to be able to buy more anhydrous methanol and will most likely buy some dry ice (I have plenty of acetone) which should keep it nice and cold.

It just makes sense to me that you would alter the PH in order to manipulate the product, clean it up a little and allow it to x’stalise. Then re-x….and probably re-x again given that I’ll most likely be doing either subcutaneous injections or if I can get a drip machine / medicinal infusion machine, I can ride the waves and explore the DMT-scape a little better and maybe be able to remember a little more….

Also, I know there is a lot in this post - if you have performed this RXN personally could you possibly chime in and let me know which method you went about it in? I am not looking to milk the cash cow here - this is literally for my learning as well as maybe my own personal use. I heard yesterday on hamiltons podcast there is a company in Spain that will test alkaloid content of organic matter as well as doing GCMS on whatever sample you send in….pretty exciting stuff - probably WAY outside my budget but we’ll see!
It’s funny how tryptamine smells like DMT. That sort of plasticky type smell - I’m not willing to see if it tastes the same when inhaled though!!
On a more serious note - although I may not get it tested professionally, I will be doing TLC to make sure the RXN is complete - trouble is my glass plates are MASSIVE. Could I get a glass cutter and cut the silicon sprayed plates from 20cmx10cm to 10cmx5cm. Then i would have 5 much smaller plates that will actually fit into a beaker I own instead of having to buy a huge beaker to do any TLC…
Also; watching hamiltons 5-meo-DMT synthesis that he does in Mexico; I noticed he used paper TLC for the same reason and his pieces of paper are about the same size I would score and knock the glass off as. I’m just wondering how he can get away with using paper for TLC when everyone else I have spoken to says that you should be using glass plates sprayed with silicon - I just didn’t look at the size! I have a black light for said usage but if I can get away with using some sort of paper TLC that’s going to be easier.
Thanks in advance - sorry this post is a bit is a scatter of chaos!
Hope you can help with at least something!
RR
RabidrejectSorry, one more thing, I have a shit ton of the stuff (tryptamine) that It made financial sense to buy - seeing as most places selling less were a similar price.
I’m also a keen photographer/cinematographer and therefore once I get the synth correct am more than happy to do video’s of the DMT and also the DET synthesis, if it would help people in the future.
 

mescalito10

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"Mr. Reddit", is she, Norolinda. Just do it exactly as she did and you will succeed. Maybe you can wait shorter between addition, repeat immediately when when the temperature drops enough. I don't know how low is enough. 0C or slightly below should be ok, you can try -5C or -10C and report your yields. You can also do 6 or 8 additions insted of 4, but with smaller amounts, so the same total but in more parts. But even if you don't change anything it's an okay procedure.
 

Rabidreject

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Ah that’s awesome! Finally someone who has actually done the synth first hand!
It’s either hard for me to find specific info because it’s the way in which they earn their living and so TOTALLY AGAINST the spirit of chemistry, sit on their knowledge and will only part with it for cash or if you REALLY know them.
Can I ask where, generally, people find their syntheses because shamefully it usually comes down to (unless it is on this website somewhere) YouTube, patents or just plain google searches and fumbling about there….usually to no great success. Oh or Reddit! I do try to see if multiple people are using the same method (on YouTube for example I’ll make sure a few people are doing the same thing - like recently I had to make sodium ethyl sulfate and there was a great video on there but I had to just tripple check multiple people are using it.
Cool, okay, I’ll work out my quantities (in g) from said DMT synth and get to work…I’ll have to substitute the water bath for a mantle (it’s one with a PTFE protected temp probe) and the rotovap with distillation - probably under as much of a vacuum as I can muster from an aspirator I’m about to buy. Oh and dry ice and hexane - I’m hoping hexane is relatively easy to buy here
I assume this will be okay only more work? I mean, I guess I could make a water bath but it would just be a pot of water on the hotplate lol this response is far too long sorry! I shall report my findings, no doubt I’ll fuck it up a time or two but hopefully not - i am in the middle of writing it down and writing my notes, simplifying the writing and putting into steps as much as possible. I’m glad it works though - have you ever tried the former method?
 

Rabidreject

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Oh okay, I just bought a water bath coz it was super cheap from China. It just means I can pop it in and forget - yup, I’m lazy!
 

mescalito10

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No, I haven't tried the STAB route, as supposedly it doesn't work with mexamine.

Some people have preffered cyanoborohydride like this guy: https://www.thevespiary.org/talk/index.php?topic=15189

Here's the best DMT thread at The Vespiary: https://www.thevespiary.org/talk/index.php?topic=16470.0

Here's details of the Hamilton's Synthesis: https://1lib.sk/book/18611424/2746f...lic-toad-of-the-sonoran-desert-synthesis.html

There's also some tryptamine chemistry also at the russian website Hyperlab.

You don't need rotovap, simple distillation is enough. You don't need vaccum. You don't need dry ice, normal crushed ice and salt water dripped over it will do. You don't need hexane, actually you don't want hexane, it's neurotoxic in a way that for example heptane isn't. You can use heptane, hexane or any mix of them in any proportions. Optionally with the addition of diethyl ether, 1:9.

I would like to help you more, but you write a lot and I am not sure what exactly you are asking about.

What kind of water bath did you buy and why?
 

Rabidreject

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Oh that’s fine, I have diethyl-ether anyway so that’s great, iv been waiting for a use for it lol
 

Rabidreject

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Just a simple water bath with timer and PID heated. It was $40 so I figured why not - it isn’t necessarily for this. I will have tried it a few times by the time that arrives, I’m aware of that. I also bought a vacuum aspirator while I was at it and some more boro stirring sticks - fuck I always sound so unprofessional as I can’t remember what simple things are called. I had a mind blank earlier as I needed a beaker and kept searching for different flasks! Took me ages to realise it was, of course, a beaker. Just getting mind blanks as i am coming off a twenty year benzo habit. So my heads fucked and the whole reason I had to confidence to start this VERY expensive endeavour as I don’t JUST want to make DMT. In fact I actually want to focus on phenethylamines but at the moment I don’t have a link for the nitromethane and nitromethane I need.
can the former be separated from that RC fuel? Some people say yes some no
 
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