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One-pot Amphetamine Synthesis From P2NP With NaBH4/CuCl2 (1kg scale)
- Thread starter GhostChemist
- Start date
During step 3 and 4 when pouring in the P2nP and CuCl2.
Does the reaction heating have any special function for the synthesis that it needs to be just below 60c and 80c or can it be cooled down to 20-30c during this process in a cold bath until the exothermic reaction stops.
And when step 5 begins use external heating to keep the reaction at 80c.
Best Regards
Does the reaction heating have any special function for the synthesis that it needs to be just below 60c and 80c or can it be cooled down to 20-30c during this process in a cold bath until the exothermic reaction stops.
And when step 5 begins use external heating to keep the reaction at 80c.
Best Regards
dear Members. is this amount really necessary? (Sodium borohydride (NaBH4) 1739 g
can anyone help/recommend a source where I can buy it in larger quantities but safely? Unfortunately, it is controlled in my country, so it is difficult for me to access it
can anyone help/recommend a source where I can buy it in larger quantities but safely? Unfortunately, it is controlled in my country, so it is difficult for me to access it
Thanks for sharing, That's interesting tho, what's your recommended ratio of adding P2NP to the reaction?
Hi Koko,
I do not know yet, depends on if I get my previous question answered.
If I can cool the whole flask to a degree of 20-30c without loosing the purpose of the reaction then I will be able to add more at a time at a more frequent phase.
If I can't then I'll start out with a spoon full at a time and keep track of the reaction and heat development.
I will do my second attempt today or tomorrow and give a new update.
Best Regards
I do not know yet, depends on if I get my previous question answered.
If I can cool the whole flask to a degree of 20-30c without loosing the purpose of the reaction then I will be able to add more at a time at a more frequent phase.
If I can't then I'll start out with a spoon full at a time and keep track of the reaction and heat development.
I will do my second attempt today or tomorrow and give a new update.
Best Regards
So sorry to hear that. But really, why do people make their first synthesis with such large batches? Do a couple of trial runs with 10-20 g:s of P2NP, using slow and controlled addition of every reagent first! It's a learning process and the raw material is costly. This is cookery, and you need to find the right touch and understand how reagents work before you start cooking in large vats. Easy does it.
Gotcha!
I think you'd require a cold waterbath or a selfmade cooling system to prevent the reaction from getting out of hand.
Keep us posted and good luck!
What would be your best advice when working with larger amounts of P2NP (1kg+) to not spoil the reaction?
Cincerly,
Koko
It is not the Sodium Borohydride that's the "problem" it's the addition of P2nP. That's when the real exothermic reaction starts, the Sodium reaction is very mild in my opinion.
I actually thought of just buying a small freezer or refrigerator that keeps +8c and put the flask inside of it with a lever so I can manually regulate the flask from the inside, and controll the temperature through it.
I actually thought of just buying a small freezer or refrigerator that keeps +8c and put the flask inside of it with a lever so I can manually regulate the flask from the inside, and controll the temperature through it.
Then, doing this reaction in larger batches without the possibility of cooling makes it quites useless?
When you say that it affects it's effeciency, do you say the reaction overall or the yield or both?
Because keeping the reaction under 60c and wanting to pout 200g P2nP that would probably takes 2-3 hours if not more if a cooling option is not available to keep the reaction atleast at 50c.
It would affect the yield, sodium borohydride creates an exothermic reaction and that's how it works.
You could try to keep it steady at around 60c while you add the p2np but it could be quite hard.
You could try to keep it steady at around 60c while you add the p2np but it could be quite hard.
I was thinking maybe dissolving the starting material in IPA and slowly drip it into the reaction vessel using a SEP funnel. You recon that would affect it negatively in any way?
Thank you,
This is what I mean, the P2nP reacts with the Sodium Borohydride and creates and very exothermic reaction in the flask.
So it has to be able to be cooled and semi-controlled just under 60c, that won't cause loose in yield, and higher efficiency.
I will keep you posted with my trials.
This is what I mean, the P2nP reacts with the Sodium Borohydride and creates and very exothermic reaction in the flask.
So it has to be able to be cooled and semi-controlled just under 60c, that won't cause loose in yield, and higher efficiency.
I will keep you posted with my trials.
Like I wrote, to first do trial runs with smaller amounts to get the feel of the reaction. Otherwise to slowly add the reagents with temperature control. Basic stuff. Exothermic reactions always run the risk of getting out of hand if you're not patient.