Cannabidiol (CBD) Isomerization to Psychoactive Cannabinoids

MuricanSpirit

Don't buy from me
New Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2021
Messages
73
Reaction score
50
Points
18
So I mixed now 20g food grade soda (I fucked up anyway before so why not continue). Mixed it with a stirring bar for about 1h. There wasn't enough Ethanol to seperate so I added (before stirring) 40ml Ethanol.

J0vNamVctE


Removed the top layer with a syringe - funny, it ended up being 50ml so about 13ml are still stuck in the soda - and throwed it into a cooking pot (lowest heating point 56°).


SoG74csAHi


Gonna smoke that shit soon enough. It still smells but but mucher better than before.
 

WillD

Expert
Joined
Jul 19, 2021
Messages
774
Reaction score
1,054
Points
93
Thank u for report! Another time will do better.
 

MuricanSpirit

Don't buy from me
New Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2021
Messages
73
Reaction score
50
Points
18
Question regarding method with HCL:

What happens with the HCL when its heated to ~70°? Wont it evaporate away during the reaction time (4h-12h++)? I know HCL changes its boiling point depending on its concentration but I don't how exactly it works.

Another question: How are we going to remove the HCL after the reaction time anyway?
 

Hans-Dietrich

Don't buy from me
New Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2021
Messages
47
Reaction score
45
Points
18
No way. More precisely, it should be said that there should be no free acid. If after obtaining the hydrochloride excess acid remains, then the substance can be dissolved in ethanol and the ethanol evaporated at a gentle boil.
 

MuricanSpirit

Don't buy from me
New Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2021
Messages
73
Reaction score
50
Points
18
What is free acid?

So if I understand you correctly, when heating ethanol with HCL then the HCL should evaporate away? I dont care if I loose ethanol.

Ofc with a reflux then the HCL will drop back under the right conditions with a low refrigerator temperature?

And now you know why I was asking about a closed system, I'm worried that the HCL will evaporate away.
 

MuricanSpirit

Don't buy from me
New Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2021
Messages
73
Reaction score
50
Points
18
Isnt there somewhere here a calculation error:

1. 1 g of CBD was added to 35 ml of 95% ethanol in a 50 ml RBF.
2. Placed in a hot water bath at 70 *C.
3. Once the CBD was dissolved, 47.3 ml of 37% hydrochloric acid were added to the solution, making it a final concentration of 0.05% HCl with a pH of less than

Shouldnt it be "Once the CBD was dissovled 0.0473ml of 37% hydrochloric acid were added to the solution, making it a final concentration of 0.05% HCl with a pH of less than"
 
Last edited:

Hans-Dietrich

Don't buy from me
New Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2021
Messages
47
Reaction score
45
Points
18
Free acid - so it remained in the solution, but did not enter into reaction. Generally, HCl is a gas. In this case, if I understood everything correctly, there are clearly signs of HCl in the final product. To remove them, you can just mix the product with ethanol and then evaporate. The acid will escape with the ethanol vapor.
 

MuricanSpirit

Don't buy from me
New Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2021
Messages
73
Reaction score
50
Points
18
1. Cleaned all equipment with pure ethanol (not cleaning alcohol because it contains substances which makes you poke)
2. Used ~99.84375ml 96% Ethanol mixed with 12g 99.7% CBD
3. Prepared a water bath at 70° (not sure if the water bath was setup correctly, check pics, but the water is higher than the ethanol)
4. Dissolved CBD with Ethanol in the meantime
5. When the water bath was 70° I put the "gangsta reflux" into it.
6. After 10-20min I added ~0.15625ml 32% HCL into it.
6. Now: Let it sit for about 12h 17h
6a. Now: Change all 2h or so the water with new ice (I know dried ice is better because it touches directly the "refrigerator").

View attachment 3017
 
Last edited:

MuricanSpirit

Don't buy from me
New Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2021
Messages
73
Reaction score
50
Points
18
6c. The mixture changed color after about 4h to a more orange/yellow
6d The mixture changed color after about 12h to a more red/brown
7. The mixture was put to a smooth glass backware (easy to scratch away, the impregnation is on the other site, so its completly "flat smooth")
8. I wanted to evaporate the remaining ethanol away at 60° but failed because the "temperature stick" wasnt placed correctly so I overheated it (didnt boil though) and the Ethanol evaporated much more quickly than expected and I'm sure a lot of the product got lost here due to overheating
9. Let it cool down until its warm/hot so its still more or less a liquid, the color is the same as expected in THC cartridges, it smells ike the content of THC cartridges
10. Completely cooled down to room temperature (22°) and its a solid

Now I'm going to scratch it out, put it somehow into a cartridge or crack pipe and smoke it. The yield isn't great but going to do better next time.

View attachment 3124

11. Heated everything up to 85°C to collect it as liquid, if it gets stuck because its very sticky then a hot spoon can be used to collect the remaining stuff.

Edit: The yield was 10.2g and some remained in the "evaporation glass" which is much better than I expected. I was afraid that the overheating might have destroyed some of the products but it looks like most of it survived.

I just smoked it with a vape at 226°C and man its good, seriously its damn good, makes high and blablabla, hahaha I'm rly fucking happy, so happy that my dick is hard as fuck. Maybe its placebo but I dont think so, let me smoke some more just to be 100% sure.
 
Last edited:

WillD

Expert
Joined
Jul 19, 2021
Messages
774
Reaction score
1,054
Points
93
Good practice! Isomerization products by reports really give "high" effects
 

MuricanSpirit

Don't buy from me
New Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2021
Messages
73
Reaction score
50
Points
18
Determine CBD Content Alkaline Beam Test:

You can use this to determine if your product contains 50% or more CBD.

1. Prepare the reagent with 5% potassium hydroxide in ethanol by weight eg. 1g KOH to 24ml/19g Ethanol
2. Throw your product into the reagent
3. Give it some minutes (the reaction should happen "instant")
4. If it turnst to a red/purple then there is a high a concentration of CBD (50%+)

Sample pic:


WMZyh2UAQv

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/delta8testing/comments/pn9azd
 

MuricanSpirit

Don't buy from me
New Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2021
Messages
73
Reaction score
50
Points
18
Why is my product so cloudy and not gold/white?

Appearance in different Volumes:

The same product in different volumes:

XN9wgJUMkt


Light can change the appearance:

The same product with different light sources:

AimP98D6sY
Lgx3KT45ZG


Ethanol Wash to Remove "Cloudy-ness"

I'm not sure why this could happen but I imagine that the content isn't the same density (different oils products mixed together):

3naRqNV5Bh


Wash it with Ethanol until it becomes clear.

Why is my solution red?

The natural color of THC Delta 8 is pink/red but you will find gold and clear looking products in the market, those products were "bleached" (it seems there is a difference between real bleaching as chemical process and "bleaching" in terms of making something look clearer).

There are other factors which also play a role regarding the color of your product:

- Oxidation: Oxidation can add more yellow to your product.
- Heat: Adds more brown/red to your product.
- Changes in the pH and refluxing can both cause the extract to turn pink

How to "bleach" my product into a gold/clear looking product (not recommended):

Clear products are almost always considered purer (even though, technically, they’re not).

One of the simplest methods of producing delta 8 THC is to reflux the extract with bentonite clay. This method is cheap and can still lead to contamination in the final product, producing clear extract.
Bleaching bentonite is not bleach.

Bentonite is described as “bleaching” not because it contains bleach but because it has certain characteristics that allow it to bind and remove color particles. The result looks like something was bleached, but no nasty chemicals are needed to achieve these results.

Bentonite clay is entirely inert — it’s the same stuff found in mud or clay masks for home skincare treatments.
 
Last edited:

MuricanSpirit

Don't buy from me
New Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2021
Messages
73
Reaction score
50
Points
18
Is it possible to use denatured alcohol?

Obviously it depends what kind of aversive agents (eg. bitterants) were added. In my case 100L "Ethanol" would contain 4L Water, 3 Liter Isoproylalcohol, 3 Liter Methylethylketon (Butanone) the rest is true Ethanol.

The purity would be technical grade.

My question is if Methylethylketon (Butanone) will remain in the solution or will it evaporate away?

THE boiling point of is Methylethylketon (Butanone) 79.64°C but when mxied with Ethanol its very close to Ethanol boiling point.
 

Uncle Lee

Don't buy from me
New Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2022
Messages
44
Reaction score
52
Points
18
Isomerization of CBD to THC using citric acid

Please be safe, at least pretend you are a professional chemist when doing the experiment, wear glasses and gloves, and have a fire extinguisher handy

It is important to note that this process is designed to use readily available materials and reagents and to convert CBD to THC as efficiently as possible, both in terms of yield and time efficiency, and is not comparable to professional laboratory techniques.

Reagents.
Citric acid
CBD
Distilled water
Sodium bicarbonate or sodium carbonate
Non-polar solvent

Equipment:
Small flask (do not fill a boiling flask more than half full)
small leibig condenser (200mm will be fine)
Small pump for condenser, aquarium pump can be
Small tube to fit the condenser fitting
Small bucket to put the pump into
Heat source suitable for your flask, preferably a heating jacket with magnetic stirring
PH test strips
A scale accurate to the gram
Dispensing funnel


Isomerization.

Determine your batch size and then determine how much water you want to use. You can go as low as 1gr H2O:1gr CBD, but you can also use more water to make the mechanics a little easier. For 1g batches I usually use 5g of water, for 5g batches I usually use 10g of water.

Add the desired amount of distilled water to the boiling flask using a small stirring bar. To do this, add at least 15% by weight of water to anhydrous citric acid, food grade. (So 1g of water will contain 0.15g of citric acid, it does not matter how much CBD you use). Attach the reflux condenser to the flask and secure it with metal clips and tube clamps. Fill the condenser and leave the aquarium pump running continuously. Turn on stirring to ~75 rpm, heat to ~120C, and bring the solution to a boil. Reflux for anywhere from 4 to 12 hours, depending on the CBD/D8/D9 mix you want. The longer the reaction runs, the more D8 you get and the less D9 you get. I prefer about 8 hours. You can run small batch tests to see what reflow times will yield the product you like. If you want 100% D8, run the reaction for 10-12 hours or until the test is negative.

Post-treatment.

Neutralization: Once the allotted time is up, turn off the heat source and allow the solution to cool to room temperature. Remember, your target is insoluble in water and is a solid at room temperature. After cooling, your flask should have large chunks of solid product floating on top of the water and clumped against the flask walls. You neutralize the citric acid with some sodium bicarbonate (3 moles of sodium bicarbonate to 1 mole of citric acid). You can add the bicarbonate directly to your solution and test the pH, or prepare a concentrated bicarbonate solution and add it to your flask, it makes little difference. Test with pH paper to confirm ~7 pH (does not need to be exact, 6-8 is fine).

Extraction.

Next, in this flask, add a portion of NPS. you will need to experiment to see exactly the smallest amount you can use, but your target molecule is readily soluble in DCM or EtOAc at room temperature. for a 5 g batch, I usually use ~20-30 mL of DCM. spin the NPS and you will see that your product has dissolved. Separate the aqueous phase and discard (I do this in a separatory funnel). Wash the NPS with an equal amount of dH2O (20ml of NPS with 20ml of dH2O) to remove any impurities physically trapped/entrapped in the product. Re-separate. If the organic phase becomes cloudy, it has absorbed some water. Dry with MgSO4 until the solution is clarified again. Decant or filter to remove MgSO4.

Isolate the product.

Your product is now dissolved in the NPS. Ideally, you can extract and recycle this NPS, thus significantly reducing the cost and environmental impact. If this is not an option, you can simply heat your solution to allow the NPS to evaporate. Perform this operation in a well ventilated area
 
View previous replies…

Dr.Chocolate

Don't buy from me
Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2023
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Points
1
How long would I need to reflux to get d9 if Im using Sulfuric acid and ethanol?
 

Python

Don't buy from me
Member
Joined
May 13, 2024
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
Points
1
I tried this and I just got a golden goey paste, I don't know if I just have to let it dry some more but doesn't seem to be usable in any way, where could I have messed it up in yoursopinion?
 

Uncle Lee

Don't buy from me
New Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2022
Messages
44
Reaction score
52
Points
18
There is no doubt that if CBD is legal in your area and THC is expensive in your area, one can easily and quickly use CBD to produce THC by isomerization in a home lab. I have produced many THC products and am happy to answer some questions for you.

I would like to ask you all, how much is it to buy CBD per kilo in your area?

My area has some advantages and in the future I hope I can sell CBD and e-cigarette equipment for THC e-cigarette oil on the forum and teach people a better isomerization process : )
 

thcman

Don't buy from me
New Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2022
Messages
18
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Could someone please help me with acetic acid method I have been practicing in small amounts and have had positive results with isomerising strong thc but removing products i belive sodium acetate was trapped in the product and with out using bicarb and just boiling off at high temp it was mildly vinegar, done anyone know anything or have any tips
 

Uncle Lee

Don't buy from me
New Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2022
Messages
44
Reaction score
52
Points
18
I think you should use Bicarbonate to neutralize the acetic acid, then use NP to extract the thc, then volatilize the NP to get the product, if the chemicals are hard to get where you are you can try the citric acid method


Can I ask you the price of cbd in your area?
 

thcman

Don't buy from me
New Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2022
Messages
18
Reaction score
0
Points
1
I used sodium bicarb on my second try and the end thc product was salty, the first time I just boiled off at 100c with lots of ethanol they both worked and got me high edible but I don't belive it would be safe to vape or smoke, cbd is very varied especially in summer can get kilos for £100 around Europe and Asia but I pay around 370 a kilo
 

Uncle Lee

Don't buy from me
New Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2022
Messages
44
Reaction score
52
Points
18
Your product tastes salty because you have not purified the THC, if you use anhydrous ethanol as the reaction solvent and acetic acid as the catalyst, you need to evaporate the solvent until the product is barely flowable, then add water and extract with a non-polar solvent, then keep the non-polar solvent, you can wash the organic phase with water, then dry and evaporate the organic phase with anhydrous sodium sulfate or anhydrous magnesium sulfate, theoretically What will be left will be pure THC, all the acetate, small amounts of alcohol and vinegar are left in the water.

I think it would be better to use citric acid, if you can get it

I thought CBD was expensive in most of Europe and I was kind of considering selling this substance before
 

thcman

Don't buy from me
New Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2022
Messages
18
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Could someone please walk me through with steps or video on how to remove acid and purify thc
 
Top