You can also synthesize NPP by reacting phenethylamine with 2 moles of methylacrylate.
Fentanyl Synthesis
- Thread starter Needtolearn
- Start date
I’ve seen the cartels do this in a T-shirt with no respirator in a barrel with a stick….
- By OrgUnikum
Yes its a nice show they put up for the clowns from VICE and US TV in general. It is not real of course, the myth of F being produced by hundreds of small manufacturers stirring in sheds in some old pots with 50 kg of F in bags just sitting in at the wall, come on, reality check. The cartels would have to supply the precursors and to take off the product for trafficing and sale. Why should they outsource the production when they can just grab some people off the road and force them to do it for being allowed to stay alive? The methods are probably almost realistic, the scale is not, of course they run superlabs for this and the whole story with the many small producers is just deception after they got their meth superlabs raided too often.
So, whats happening? Mexico makes not much Crystal Meth anymore just some razemic meth cut with N-ISO. All the real d.Meth comes from China and bordering countries where the Triads have buildt up massive production capacities but they cannot sell much in China anymore and the other SE countries are cracking down hard too. So instead of selling precursors for Meth to Mexico they sell the product directly and everybody is happy. F though they cannot produce and sell from China to Mexico say the US, thats political and as the Triads and the Chinese Communist Party are tightly interwoven in some regions of South China they made a deal: Precursors for F superlabs and d.Meth directly. Cartels happy as the got rid of the tedious Methlabs and have only to run the much more compact F labs and the Chinese as they still make money and more having F produced cheap and sold to the US of course takes away the traditional source of black money from the CIA, they depend since ages on the Heroin trade for their black ops and that just dried out.
I though can congratulate the wise Chinese leaders for this genius plot to defund the CIA. At least somebody is really caring about the world it seems
So, whats happening? Mexico makes not much Crystal Meth anymore just some razemic meth cut with N-ISO. All the real d.Meth comes from China and bordering countries where the Triads have buildt up massive production capacities but they cannot sell much in China anymore and the other SE countries are cracking down hard too. So instead of selling precursors for Meth to Mexico they sell the product directly and everybody is happy. F though they cannot produce and sell from China to Mexico say the US, thats political and as the Triads and the Chinese Communist Party are tightly interwoven in some regions of South China they made a deal: Precursors for F superlabs and d.Meth directly. Cartels happy as the got rid of the tedious Methlabs and have only to run the much more compact F labs and the Chinese as they still make money and more having F produced cheap and sold to the US of course takes away the traditional source of black money from the CIA, they depend since ages on the Heroin trade for their black ops and that just dried out.
I though can congratulate the wise Chinese leaders for this genius plot to defund the CIA. At least somebody is really caring about the world it seems
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You seem like you know your shit, is there any way to make good fent in a simple way and if not then what's the simplest way to make good quality fent? The mexicans make it look so easy.
- By OrgUnikum
First: You do not make plain F as thats a shitty drug for recreational purposes. China White was/is not plain Fentanyl but it always was a derivative - similar but not identical for exactly this reason. There are variations where the propionylchloride was replaced by another acid chloride which are far superior, somewhat longer acting, much more euphoria with somewhat reduced strength. This also eliminates the dangers which are always involved in sourcing the highly watched propionylchloride.
And you have to either source NPP, thats the compound with the first step of the standard synthesis already done, or at least start with Piperidone which is protected but not benzylated at the 4- position, the =O .
This way the known synths will work.
Knowledge of laboratory practice is necessary, if you do not have it, find somebody who has it. Laboratory technicians or assistants are far more useful then actual chemists.
The Mexican Fent is crap, very low quality. Its cheap yes. You must not believe the show they put up for idiots from VICE or other US TV stations, thats fake, there are not hundreds of small business operations making Fent, the cartels are making it in big "labs" like they did with Meth. "Superlabs" the DEA likes to call them. Just they learned from the big Meth labs that its not wise to create such targets and so they are spreading the fairy tale of the many small operations. What obviously makes no sense whatsoever as why let people make money you can make yourself for next to nothing by using forced labor? In special as the import of precursors is already controlled and transport and sales also? Why put an intermediate step into the hands of hundreds of small manufacturers? Utter bullshit.
And you have to either source NPP, thats the compound with the first step of the standard synthesis already done, or at least start with Piperidone which is protected but not benzylated at the 4- position, the =O .
This way the known synths will work.
Knowledge of laboratory practice is necessary, if you do not have it, find somebody who has it. Laboratory technicians or assistants are far more useful then actual chemists.
The Mexican Fent is crap, very low quality. Its cheap yes. You must not believe the show they put up for idiots from VICE or other US TV stations, thats fake, there are not hundreds of small business operations making Fent, the cartels are making it in big "labs" like they did with Meth. "Superlabs" the DEA likes to call them. Just they learned from the big Meth labs that its not wise to create such targets and so they are spreading the fairy tale of the many small operations. What obviously makes no sense whatsoever as why let people make money you can make yourself for next to nothing by using forced labor? In special as the import of precursors is already controlled and transport and sales also? Why put an intermediate step into the hands of hundreds of small manufacturers? Utter bullshit.
You do not know what you say.
In Mexico, Chinese precursors are not needed to manufacture meth.
We have everything to manufacture it.
And it is made in chemical plants, and they have been obtaining the D isomer for years, everything is an industrialized process.
Production costs are so low that transporting it from China is more expensive than manufacturing it. And it would be absurd to adulterate such a cheap product.
In Mexico, Chinese precursors are not needed to manufacture meth.
We have everything to manufacture it.
And it is made in chemical plants, and they have been obtaining the D isomer for years, everything is an industrialized process.
Production costs are so low that transporting it from China is more expensive than manufacturing it. And it would be absurd to adulterate such a cheap product.
- By Doktor Faust
According to the available information, in Mexico, meth is produced starting from benzyl cyanide (or benzyl chloride), via APAAN, BMK and formic acid/methylamine. The resulting racemic meth is then resolved, using, very likely, tartaric acid or a derivative thereof (e. g. dibenzoyl tartaric acid), producing the desired (+) meth (i. e. dextrometh). Finally, the free base is treated with HCl to get the final product, i.e. “ice”. The (-) meth is discarded, as it is inactive. The resulting ice still has a small amount of (-) meth (few per cents, as detected by chiral HPLC), but that does not affect the potency. Apparently, a profitable and efficient procedure, despite that one half (- meth or levometh) is discarded.
It seems that they do not use any chiral precursor (e.g. +ephedrine or +pseudoephedrine), unlike some other manufacturers.
So, most likely, Mexican ice is a genuine, “made in Mexico” product.
But, in producing fentanyl, it seems that Mexico is much less self-sufficient, supposedly depending on some imported precursors. (Still, it is cheap). Much more so in the case of 3-Me f. and carfent. (Actually, these are hardly produced there, although could be highly profitable).
They might be interested in purchasing industrial, know-how procedures, to get fully self-sufficient.
It seems that they do not use any chiral precursor (e.g. +ephedrine or +pseudoephedrine), unlike some other manufacturers.
So, most likely, Mexican ice is a genuine, “made in Mexico” product.
But, in producing fentanyl, it seems that Mexico is much less self-sufficient, supposedly depending on some imported precursors. (Still, it is cheap). Much more so in the case of 3-Me f. and carfent. (Actually, these are hardly produced there, although could be highly profitable).
They might be interested in purchasing industrial, know-how procedures, to get fully self-sufficient.
I just know it’s a huge amount and people have died from the package itself.
- By OrgUnikum
You got any trustworthy source for such a statement? As I think thats like the policemen dropping into comas when just looking at something what might be F, propaganda. Like it is "scientific proven" that 1 mg per kg bodyweight resembles a deadly dose of Amphetamine. See Wikipedia and the article they name for this bullshit.
So yes its dangerous but so are many things we work with. I think so its not possible to scare people off, it never worked. why not more constructive like telling people that they must use a glovebox when handling this and much more so when handling Car-F what should never be distributed in pure form anyways. And some tips and links on how easy it actually is to make such a box complete with underpressure and HEPA filter plus an Ozone generator inside to get rid of all what might have remained.
Just my 2 Cents (€ Cents of course)
So yes its dangerous but so are many things we work with. I think so its not possible to scare people off, it never worked. why not more constructive like telling people that they must use a glovebox when handling this and much more so when handling Car-F what should never be distributed in pure form anyways. And some tips and links on how easy it actually is to make such a box complete with underpressure and HEPA filter plus an Ozone generator inside to get rid of all what might have remained.
Just my 2 Cents (€ Cents of course)
Good afternoon, is there a person who could help me how to synthesize 4-piperidone, I found information that it can be synthesized from formaldehyde, acetone and ammonia at 60 degrees Celsius in 6 hours, I did it but it only changes the solution to orange color, No solid was ever precipitated. Anyone who can help me with this synthesis would appreciate it.
@novato240801, plain piperidone, i.e. in the form of secondary amine doesn't exist, moreover your synthesis cannot produce even tertiary amine piperidone because its suitable only for 3- and/or 3,5-disubstituted piperidones, wich means you have to use ketone with single acidic proton.
But the good news for you is that if you just want to make fentanyl, you can skip the preparation of piperidone monohydrate hcl, just start from making NPP or by other routes.
But the good news for you is that if you just want to make fentanyl, you can skip the preparation of piperidone monohydrate hcl, just start from making NPP or by other routes.
Yea that's what they say but benzos are not water soluble and smoking benzos is absurd maybe it's a synthetic version that can be smokeable but mainly the over doses that has happen because they find small traces of carfentanil. The media doesn't like to admit that information until later on when the data proves the evidence that most all OD cases in high numbers in short periods and in a certain city concludes that it was carfentanil. Now the benzos thing I tried it with various different types of benzo and it didn't work or burn correctly maybe it's tranq that people are mistaken it for
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IF you manage TO DO EVERYTHING RIGHT...and you want to be POSITIVE YOUR O LY LEFT SOTH ABSOKUTRLY TRIPLE WASHED AND ABSOLUTELY NO Impurities; THIS IS WHAT YOUR FINAL PRODUCT OF FENTANYL HCL WILL LOOK LIKE; absolutely NO smell, melts and drys co.pletely see through on tin foil... and this is 100.00% (triple washed to remove Impurities...
(AS seen below...)
Sincerely
awrq
(AS seen below...)
Sincerely
awrq
Attachments
- By OrgUnikum
If you have the skills or have somebody who has, why make Fentanyl what is a really shitty drug by duration, euphoria and safety. Why not make an derivitive and you have not to get propionic anhydride or the chloride AND you have a superior drug.
Carfentanyl is the opioid with one of the largest safety margins of all far better then Heroin, Fentanyl etc. The problem is that it is not cut properly or it is not sold as Car-F and people do not know that they do not have to uppen doses for the same effects but reduce them as some Car-F will stay in the system. It is also only a problem for those who really have to chase the dragon every time, any dose which is not an almost OD regarded as too low...
Well sorry, I have no pity on them, they have been asking for it and every time too.
With Car-f One neds no paraphelia, needles no crap just a small bottle with nose sprayer attachment and one is good to go for a very long time with the same nice effects as with shooting up and no need to show the world one is a junkie.
Works only for those who do not want to look like junkies, many want it they can have it but no complaints - you live the life you die the death, say on a toilet with a needle in the arm.
Honestly: Sorry to say, not everybody must be saved, if somebody really wants to go to the limit - do it but do not expect any pity or help if you fail. Same for extreme sports and a lot more.
But Car-F is a great drug just got a bad rep for it will in the end ruin the CIAs financing black ops by Heroin money. Love those Chises bastards who organized this to happen, it is genius.
Carfentanyl is the opioid with one of the largest safety margins of all far better then Heroin, Fentanyl etc. The problem is that it is not cut properly or it is not sold as Car-F and people do not know that they do not have to uppen doses for the same effects but reduce them as some Car-F will stay in the system. It is also only a problem for those who really have to chase the dragon every time, any dose which is not an almost OD regarded as too low...
Well sorry, I have no pity on them, they have been asking for it and every time too.
With Car-f One neds no paraphelia, needles no crap just a small bottle with nose sprayer attachment and one is good to go for a very long time with the same nice effects as with shooting up and no need to show the world one is a junkie.
Works only for those who do not want to look like junkies, many want it they can have it but no complaints - you live the life you die the death, say on a toilet with a needle in the arm.
Honestly: Sorry to say, not everybody must be saved, if somebody really wants to go to the limit - do it but do not expect any pity or help if you fail. Same for extreme sports and a lot more.
But Car-F is a great drug just got a bad rep for it will in the end ruin the CIAs financing black ops by Heroin money. Love those Chises bastards who organized this to happen, it is genius.
Maybe @OrganicGuy007 is still under impression of that one-pot method from Indian super-chemists where they mix all shit together, stir and pour directly onto the dealer's lactose.
- By rss
one-pot synthesis is ofc not a right path to take if you are a serious cook & indeed the above synthesis is outdated. there are some more method i know which is way simpler and shorter than the above one. i think @OrganicGuy007 got more experience in this field, i want to know more effective method which he knows & wants to share.
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- By itsbluesky
i hear that swapping out the glacial acetic acid with a catalytic amount of zinc chloride is what’s supposed to be done, that former was disinformation and effectively reduces the yield by up to 55% (i.e. ~12-33%).
- By Doktor Faust
3-Methylfentanyl is an old compound, going back to 1973 and 1974. It has been actually detected on street markets from time to time, not too often.
The compound (as cis/trans mixture) is relatively easy to synthesize, for those who know how to do it.
First, 2-phenylethylamine adds to methyl methacrylate (or its ethyl ester analogue) (aza-Michael addition), which stops spontaneously when complete (there is no second addition). Then the resulting mono-adduct is reacted directly with methyl acrylate, or its ethyl ester analogue, (which represents the second aza-Michael addition), and the obtained amino-diester is subjected to Dieckmann condensation (there are some simple, highly efficient, newer protocols for this condensation.) After acid hydrolysis/decarboxylation (20% HCl or 50% H2SO4), the resulting 3-methyl N-(2-phenylethyl) piperidone (obtained in high overall yields) is used for the reductive amination with aniline (with NaBH3CN or NaBH(AcO)3. The cis/trans mixture is obtained in ~6:4 -7:3 ratio, in moderate yields. (There are better reducing agents, not mentioned here).
The cis/trans mixture of the intermediate is the problem, as it is not easy to resolve, apart from chromatography. (There are some crystallization procedures). The potency of +/- cis 3-MF is about 8 X fentanyl and the effect lasts much longer, up to 12h, as opposed to fentanyl (1-2h). Only + enantiomer is active, - is not. The +/-trans 3-MF is much weaker, about fentanyl itself. It is an unwanted isomer, and there is a need to remove it. (If present in significant amounts, it obviously decreases the potency). The synthesis is completed using propionyl chloride (less preferably propionic anhydride), and the product is precipitated as an oxalate salt (unlike fentanyl, which is monocitrate salt). It is not encountered that often on the streets, because the synthesis is actually more complex than described above (the procedure must be known and understood in detail). Also, cis-trans separation of the mixture is laborious and the trans isomer is lost, i.e. discarded. (Detailed large-scale procedures might be available for the professionals, at a very high cost).
Benzyl 3-methyl fentanyl, is not a practically usefull precursor of 3-MF, unless someone has no access to 2-phenylethylamine or its precursor, benzyl cyanide. Even then, there are workaround methods.
The fact is, +/- cis 3-methyl fentanyl is a quite lethal substance, unless diluted and dosed properly (only experts can do that, even than sensitive individuals can overdose and die, due to the respiratory depression, i.e. stop of the spontaneous breathing, just as it is the case with heroin).
It is entirely different matter what the users actually encounter on the markets. It need not to be 3-MF at all, more likely fentanyl or even some of the nitazenes.
There are no any simple means of knowing what the contents of the mixture are.
The compound (as cis/trans mixture) is relatively easy to synthesize, for those who know how to do it.
First, 2-phenylethylamine adds to methyl methacrylate (or its ethyl ester analogue) (aza-Michael addition), which stops spontaneously when complete (there is no second addition). Then the resulting mono-adduct is reacted directly with methyl acrylate, or its ethyl ester analogue, (which represents the second aza-Michael addition), and the obtained amino-diester is subjected to Dieckmann condensation (there are some simple, highly efficient, newer protocols for this condensation.) After acid hydrolysis/decarboxylation (20% HCl or 50% H2SO4), the resulting 3-methyl N-(2-phenylethyl) piperidone (obtained in high overall yields) is used for the reductive amination with aniline (with NaBH3CN or NaBH(AcO)3. The cis/trans mixture is obtained in ~6:4 -7:3 ratio, in moderate yields. (There are better reducing agents, not mentioned here).
The cis/trans mixture of the intermediate is the problem, as it is not easy to resolve, apart from chromatography. (There are some crystallization procedures). The potency of +/- cis 3-MF is about 8 X fentanyl and the effect lasts much longer, up to 12h, as opposed to fentanyl (1-2h). Only + enantiomer is active, - is not. The +/-trans 3-MF is much weaker, about fentanyl itself. It is an unwanted isomer, and there is a need to remove it. (If present in significant amounts, it obviously decreases the potency). The synthesis is completed using propionyl chloride (less preferably propionic anhydride), and the product is precipitated as an oxalate salt (unlike fentanyl, which is monocitrate salt). It is not encountered that often on the streets, because the synthesis is actually more complex than described above (the procedure must be known and understood in detail). Also, cis-trans separation of the mixture is laborious and the trans isomer is lost, i.e. discarded. (Detailed large-scale procedures might be available for the professionals, at a very high cost).
Benzyl 3-methyl fentanyl, is not a practically usefull precursor of 3-MF, unless someone has no access to 2-phenylethylamine or its precursor, benzyl cyanide. Even then, there are workaround methods.
The fact is, +/- cis 3-methyl fentanyl is a quite lethal substance, unless diluted and dosed properly (only experts can do that, even than sensitive individuals can overdose and die, due to the respiratory depression, i.e. stop of the spontaneous breathing, just as it is the case with heroin).
It is entirely different matter what the users actually encounter on the markets. It need not to be 3-MF at all, more likely fentanyl or even some of the nitazenes.
There are no any simple means of knowing what the contents of the mixture are.